If you are picky about audio, again, ProRes with PCM is better.

I have found out through testing that if audio is leveled to ATSC/A85, it will also be compliant with EBU R128. It would suck to have it rejected for audio being too loud.

So I don't really understand audio much at all, so I figure if I hit the requirements as per the spec sheet and normalize to something like -10db/-12db won't that be enough? Since it will be under the -10db threshold for peaks? I'm a complete novice when it comes to audio work.

You need to measure the loudness, rather than just the peaks. I'm no expert but can get you started...

Open the loudness meters in Vegas (View > Window > Loudness Meters). The Integrated loudness measurement is the one you should pay most attention to. On the context menu (right click) you can toggle Absolute (-23 LUFS). As I understand it, you want to be aiming for a loudness of zero, if Absolute (-23 LUFS) is ON, or -23 if Absolute (-23 LUFS) is OFF.

On the very rare occasions I've done this in the past, I've been surprised at how quiet the audio has to be to meet the spec.

Do a Google on "EBU R128 broadcast spec" and read the top couple of results, along with the Vegas help for the loudness meters.

I don't really know what I'm talking about on this subject so it would be helpful if someone with more experience could contribute.

Thank you for this. I'll look into this now.

Very informative thread. For my own understanding, what does it mean that Magix Intermediate is not an Apple-certified encoder, but it is Pro Res? I'm not understanding how that works. Is it like the difference between a brand name and generic medication? For instance, Pro Res is like the brand name Motrin but Magix Intermediate is basically the generic formulation of ibuprofen? Is it wrong to refer to Magix Intermediate as ProRes and no one will be the wiser in .mov container? Just trying to understand.

Very informative thread. For my own understanding, what does it mean that Magix Intermediate is not an Apple-certified encoder, but it is Pro Res? I'm not understanding how that works. Is it like the difference between a brand name and generic medication? For instance, Pro Res is like the brand name Motrin but Magix Intermediate is basically the generic formulation of ibuprofen? Is it wrong to refer to Magix Intermediate as ProRes and no one will be the wiser in .mov container? Just trying to understand.Vegas Pro

@karma17 I should have used the term Apple-"authorized" rather than certified. Here is Apple's list of ProRes authorized products: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321 A lot of them are hardware devices, and a lot of the apps are probably only licensed to use the encoder on Macs. I recall a few years ago reading that there was only 1 Windows app licensed to use the official ProRes encoder, and it was something slightly surprising such as Smoke or Fusion. Maybe there are more now.

I assume the licensing fee for the authorized encoder would be high, and I guess it may be higher for Windows than Mac.

As I understand it, the encoder in Vegas is a reverse-engineered encoder. I also guess that the change of name from Magix ProRes to Magix Intermediate was for legal reasons.

Technically the Vegas "ProRes" encoder seems pretty robust. Since the early glitches there have been very few, if any, posts about problems with it (there are still outstanding DEcoding issues). I think most recipients would just see the output as real ProRes.

There are a couple of previous discussion threads about this:

• https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/prores-out-of-sms--100885/
• https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/magix-prores-real-prores--105089/

Thanks for explaining all that. To be honest, when I was using Da Vinci Resolve on a Windows system, I was forced to render out in DNxHD, probably for the same licensing reasons, Pro Res was not a render option with Windows in Resolve. But when I compared to DNxHD to ProRes, side by side, I couldn't really tell much of a difference. Now I mostly shoot XAVC 10 bit (FS7) and don't usually have issues with the renders in Vegas using XAVC, no matter what I choose. Mostly it is a question of rendering time.

Those threads you referenced are very interesting!!! I like all the back and forth.

I've been surprised at how quiet the audio has to be to meet the spec.

There is no legal loudnness standard for streaming internet video as there is for broadcast.

The de facto standard for streaming is borrowed from iTunes, which is about 6 dB louder than broadcast "best practices." Thats about -18 LKFS, but no one pays any attention anyway, so what you hear on the internet is very loud and very compressed, indeed.

If you will level all of your broadcast material to the US standard (ATSC/A85 -24 LKFS), it will be legal worldwide, no matter where you live. Many people don't understand this. If you use the European standard (EUB R128, -23 LUFS), not all of your content will be strictly legal for US broadcast. I have tested this theory with various live performance sources, and it seems to be 100% accurate.

The standard is regretably relaxed a couple of dB for short-form commercial programming, and someone with hypersensitive hearing loss will tell you even that can be annoying.

Also, pre-limit your audio peaks to -6dB and be a little conservative; I don't think Vegas' meters catch intersample peaks as do the recommended True Peak meters. Maybe rraud knows if this has changed.

(Along the same lines, strictly conform to 16-235 video levels, editing in Vegas native RGB, and applying Studio RGB last in the chain, just before rendering. This is really good insurance against chroma slop, which "might" trigger a reject if the engineer is having a bad morning.)

Nick gave you an excellent introduction to the concept of loudness as opposed to gain, although the act of loudness leveling alone does not add any compression. That is up to you.

I would keep all of my mixes 2.0 stereo until I get my feet wet. All broadcast "Surround" is generally wretched, and that goes double for teevee advertising. And please, leave the thunder and earthquakes and beatbox stuff to the car commercials! It's not good advertising if it uses invasive tricks to blow grandpa off the couch, and it's so cheap.

Best of luck, and don't get discouraged if it gets sent back the first time. Try to work with the same engineer each time. Understand that their rules are a shifting target depending on who you talk to or how much they actually know.

Very helpful info!!

Thank you When I first dabbled in loudness theory about seven years back, a couple of guys here cried of heresy. For about three years, I analyzed Super Bowl ads to catch the cheaters. By far, the biggest culprits were the big movie trailers, with beverages and snacks not far behind, at least on the obnoxiousness scale. Is that a word?