Glitchy Renders

Richard-Bril wrote on 8/13/2021, 5:49 PM

Lately I've been rendering some volleyball games I've edited and after putting in a lot of time with the tedious stuff like the scoreboard, the added camera movement, the music etc., I just want to wrap it up and post it as quick as possible. I often use a plugin called Film Color 2 as a cheat to getting my hands dirty with manually color grading. I just slap it on the whole video track(s) (rather than applying it to each individual clip), tweak one of the presets and let that be the extent of my color grading...since it kinda looks good. What I've been noticing however is that the final rendered MP4 (using MAGIX AVC/AAC MP4 and tweaking one of the higher quality presets) will often have glitches in random places that weren't there while I was editing it. The glitches are normally black screen chopping in and out and other times horizontal glitchy-type lines. If I do the render again sometimes it will come out without the glitches, but it seems some of the renders will not render out properly no matter how many times I try. When this keeps happening and when I start to lose patience, I work around it in a couple different ways:

If I render out the video in one of the higher Intermediate formats, these glitches don't usually show up (though sometimes a single one or 2 will make it through). This produces a 70GB file on a 7 minute video and takes much longer. I can post that large .mov file to youtube, but for my archive version I will then render that .mov file down to a 4K MP4 of around 2GB for storage.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe that putting the Film Color 2 effect on the whole track might be a cause for this, as opposed to putting it on each individual clip. I've done intensive edits in the recent past where I apply FilmColor2, or another meaty plugin...but only to certain clips...and I have never gotten these glitches. I've also had these same glitches occur when using other plugins, not just Film Color 2. The reason I can't easily apply the effect to each clip by using the Paste Event Attributes, is because color grading is the final stage of my editing process...and I manually edit each clip and place tons of keyframes for camera movement in each clip...if I did the Paste Event Attributes, it would also copy the KFs from the one clip to all.

Hope I explained this properly. Am I doing something wrong? I'd rather not have to render to Intermediate each time (which takes much longer) when using intensive plugins...I'd rather be able to figure out how to render down without the glitches I get quite often. I do notice that when I do a lot of editing (like many overlays for speech bubbles, or 2 scoreboards instead of 1 (and each scoreboard has 12 tracks), or if I have a lot of KFs going on to create camera movement), that I get more glitches when rendering.

If this helps, here are a couple videos I recently u/l to YT which I had to render out dozens of times to get a clean render with no glitches. The first of these 2 videos, I ended up rendering to Intermediate in segments, where there would be 1 glitch in 1 spot...and I'd just render that 1 spot again and again till it rendered with no glitch.

FWIW, all the "camera movement" was created in the editing by manually using KFs (set to Smooth, with a smoothness of 100%)...and a few instances of the Active Camera effect where I've created about a dozen presets.

This second video...because I had less time to do it, I wasn't happy with the saturation of the whites that I quickly dialed in using FilmColor2, which you can see in the tree-line, but because I had rendered out so many times with glitches...that when I finally got one with no glitches, I just kept it:

Thank you for your input, or ideas on a way to fix this problem...it is much appreciated!

Comments

Former user wrote on 8/13/2021, 5:55 PM

Without seeing the glitches, it is hard to diagnose. One thing to check, make sure you have Quantize to Frames enabled. If it is disabled, you can get some funny black frames.

Richard-Bril wrote on 8/13/2021, 7:28 PM

Thank you, Doug, for being willing to help me. I'm u/l a copy of the rendered video (of the 2nd volleyball match I posted above) that has the glitches in it. It'll be ready in a few minutes (and may take another little while for the HD version to be ready).

The opening glitchy-editing was intentional, but at 01:12 is where the first render glitches start...for only 1 or 2 seconds. Then at around 02:00 is where the glitches start up again and don't stop.

I forgot to mention in my first post that I created the transitions that I use in these volleyball videos. I made them in Vegas once I learned how you could put elements together, animate them and create a transition. Anyways, the first set of those transitions I made were in 60fps because the first VB match I recorded was in 60fps. However, most of the simpler VB games I record are in 30fps. I discovered that the 60fps transitions were causing some render issues (glitches) on the video clips of 30fps...so I created another set of the same transitions, but at 30fps. In this video all the transitions are 30fps. Though I don't know the logic behind why certain effects or plugins will misbehave when applied to footage that may be of a different frame rate, I do believe it plays a role.

I'll look into the Quantize to Frames right now. Yes, it is (and has always been) turned on.

Former user wrote on 8/13/2021, 7:39 PM

I would guess that you are using your GPU to render. Try without once and see what happens.

Richard-Bril wrote on 8/13/2021, 8:32 PM

I'm pretty sure you're right...but where do I turn off the GPU from being used during the render process?

Richard-Bril wrote on 8/13/2021, 8:34 PM

Preferences-->Video-->GPU acceleration of video processing (turn to "Off")?

RogerS wrote on 8/14/2021, 12:44 AM

Sure, try that. Also try dynamic ram preview at 0MB if just that change doesn't fix it.

fr0sty wrote on 8/14/2021, 1:09 AM

also don't use render templates that have (vce), (nvenc), or (qsv) next to them. Those are GPU accelerated. if that helps, try updating your gpu driver.

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/14/2021, 1:10 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Musicvid wrote on 8/14/2021, 8:44 AM

I'm pretty sure you're right...but where do I turn off the GPU from being used during the render process?

@Richard-Bril

It's right here in your Render Template. (Pardon my dark theme).

Mainconcept AVC is your software codec, which is what @Former user wants you to try. You may have other hardware codecs listed.

Richard-Bril wrote on 8/14/2021, 8:09 PM

Thank you. I deleted my last 2 volleyball game projects after getting my final render and posting to YT. (Partly because I was so frustrated with the amount of times I had to render out to get a clean copy and partly because all the Intermediate files totaled hundreds of Gigs on my HD.)

I'm working on my next VB game right now and I'll be able to implement these suggestions. To mimic the steps that lead to the glitchy renders, I'll use the FilmColor2 plugin again...and apply speech bubbles and other overlays (and fancy transitions) to try and induce the glitchy render problem.

I'll set my "GPU acceleration of video processing" back to using my RTX2080Ti. I'm willing to try setting the "Dynamic RAM Preview max (MB) to 0, but I've found that with my 64GB of system memory and the 32,768MB Vegas shows for "Max available", I set mine to 10GB (from something I saw on Scrap Yard Films). If I set that to 0, I can't use the SHIFT+B feature of doing a the preview render to see smooth playback on the timeline.

I'll switch the "Encode mode" from NV Encoder (which is what it's always been set to) to Mainconcept AVC and see if that fixes it.

Since we're talking about rendering, I might as well ask something that's always confused me; half the tutorials I've read and seen on YT suggest to set the Preview Window to Best-->Full for the best render, the other half don't mention this at all. I've run renders to test this (I usually have mine set to Preview-->Half)...and the renders seem to be exactly the same regardless of what Preview Window setting it's on while rendering. Just wanted a more sure word on this.

Thanks

fr0sty wrote on 8/14/2021, 8:59 PM

If any of the disable GPU options do fix it, chances are a driver update is the key. Use the driver update utility in the VEGAS 18 help menu to find the right one. Then you should be able to re-enable the gpu acceleration.

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/14/2021, 8:59 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Former user wrote on 8/14/2021, 9:06 PM

@Richard-Bril You are right, the preview settings don't affect rendering, they are probably referring to the PROPERTIES setting under FILE. You can set the render quality there. I leave mine at BEST. Others may say you don't have to, but if you resize your video (PIP, Zooms, etc) it can sometimes be flaky on the GOOD settiing.

RogerS wrote on 8/14/2021, 10:01 PM

For rendering there is no advantage to setting a high dynamic ram preview value. The Scrapyard hint was about previewing (it's basically a buffer). The problem is that buffer interacts with renders in unexpected ways, especially if you are using GPU encoding (NVENC, VCE). I would always pair those encoders with 0MB dynamic ram preview in Vegas Pro 15-18. You can set it back to whatever you like when you resume editing.

Anyway I'd isolate one thing at a time and figure out which is causing your problem

EricLNZ wrote on 8/14/2021, 10:47 PM

Since we're talking about rendering, I might as well ask something that's always confused me; half the tutorials I've read and seen on YT suggest to set the Preview Window to Best-->Full for the best render, the other half don't mention this at all. I've run renders to test this (I usually have mine set to Preview-->Half)...and the renders seem to be exactly the same regardless of what Preview Window setting it's on while rendering. Just wanted a more sure word on this.

@Richard-Bril Don't your preview window settings automatically change when rendering to your render properties? Then automatically change back when rendering is complete. It's what your render settings dictate that counts.

Richard-Bril wrote on 8/16/2021, 4:25 PM

I just finished my latest volleyball video and thankfully I was able to get a clean render on the first run. Thank you everybody for helping!

@EricLNZ, you're right, the Preview Window settings do automatically change once you start the render (and go back after rendering is complete). Upon looking closer, I noticed that even though the Preview Window changed to "Best" during render (since that's what my render settings were set to), it was showing "(Half)", so "Best (Half)". I did another test immediately afterwards where I set the preview window to "Preview (Full)"...and then rendered again and this time the Preview Window showed "Best (Full)", however the resulting file size was exactly the same and I don't really know if that made any difference to the quality of the final rendered file.

But back to my "glitchy" problems, I'm quite sure that applying FilmColor2 to the Tracks (as Track FX) has been the cause of the glitches I was experiencing (and which cause Vegas to crash during certain editing functions. When I apply that effect to individual clips, I don't get any glitches or Vegas crashes, either during editing/playback or during render process.

As per your suggestions I started implementing different troubleshooting steps to try and isolate the problem. I started by updating the driver for my RTX 2080Ti. NVidia's site had a new driver update for "creators" (I didn't know there were different drivers for gamers and creators). After updating the drivers, the only other change in Vegas I did was to reduce the Dynamic RAM Preview to 0 (down from 10,000)...and the render came out glitch-free on the first run. (Before upgrading the driver and changing the Dynamic RAM, I was getting even more glitchy behavior on this particular video project...I was even getting glitches while editing in the timeline (which doesn't normally happen).--maybe because I added a new effect plugin to the chain in the TrackFX, which I'll explain next.

Something I decided to do on this video was to figure out how to match the color from one camera to another rather than trying to manually color grade the 2 to be close. After not having an easy time doing this with the BCC Color Match plugin (following a guy on YT), I found that Vegas has its own Color Match and it was pretty easy to use and it got camera 2 relatively close to camera 1. (If anyone has tips on the best way to color match multiple cameras/sources...and THEN still be able to add final color grading after that, please let me know.) So for one of the 2 cameras I applied the Color Match effect (as a Track FX so I wouldn't have to add it separately to all the sliced clips on the timeline).

Then I applied 2 other effects to both of the camera tracks (also as Track FX)...Color Corrector and Film Color 2. After about 15 minutes of editing with these effects running (I normally try to apply the color grading after the editing is complete, but I still had a few things to edit and fix, like the scoreboard and a few other fixes), I started getting glitches right as I was editing (something that hasn't happened before...as it normally will play glitch-free on the timeline, albeit a bit choppy the more FX I have running). So I disabled all the plugins in the TrackFX for both video tracks so I could finish editing more easily. I still got a lot of Vegas crashes during this process, especially where certain events like transitions were happening.

Sorry this is so long. I'll end by saying that I will continue to monitor and test and troubleshoot all the different things that I could enable/disable (like GPU acceleration, Dynamic RAM, etc) and see which of these are playing the biggest role...AND also keep an eye on Film Color 2 the plugin and if there were any way to not have to use that plugin on the Track FX (if there were some way to copy that effect to all clips using the Paste Event Attributes...but to not copy all the keyframes with it...I'd do that instead). If you're interested, here is the last video I just finished editing so you can see the Color Match, Color Corrector, Film Color 2 in effect...on the 2 different video tracks as Track FX: