Happy Otter Script help for DVD to H.264

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 1/30/2019, 6:08 PM

wwaag deserves the credit for making this discussion possible. One guy's interpretation of a command line isn't "better" than any other's. We're past that, and wwaag and Nick have always held the edge over me.

TIMTOWTDI

  • I think 30p uses all the temporal information, 2 fields = 1 progressive frame. Thus divisor 2.
  • Conservative because I didn't know if Wistia takes 60p. 30p uses about half the bandwidth of 60p and should render faster. It also had slightly better PSNR in another test.
  • I believe your SD 4:3 DV (probably DVCAM) source was shot RGB and flagged 601 for making the DVD.
  • I produced a lot of shows shot this way in the 2000s on a pair of XHA1s. Our HDV was flagged 709, but we weren't producing BluRays.
  • I do not like Lanczos 4 because it is too sharp for SD (adds piping). You would only possibly see a difference with vertical upscaling.
  • Using Faster instead of Medium deinterlace was a result of reading your and Nick's 2014 discussion on the same subject below.

That all said, it doesn't make a bit of difference. Six years ago, we got into a "Show me yours, Show you mine" x264-war on Handbrake, and no one ever proved their command line was better, and we saw some Whoppers!

So wwag's got all the depth, I've got a little x264, and you and Nick were already way ahead of me on the AVS side of things, Mike.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/ne1-using-nick-hope-s-workflow--97374/#ca592184

Take everything that's being said, test it all on Wistia, do what seems right, because none of it's wrong at this stage.

Then come back with your own Wistia settings, and you will know more than any of us.

Mike you've been working on the same project for five years now?

 

MikeLV wrote on 1/30/2019, 6:17 PM

Yes it starts to feel like splitting hairs at a certain point. The video looks good to me, so I'm just going to go with it. Not really the same project for five years. That post you linked to was about HD encoding from Vegas. This is something different, about trying to preserve as much quality as possible when converting from a DVD to a streaming video format. With your help, and wwaag, I think that goal is now accomplished :-)

Musicvid wrote on 1/30/2019, 6:25 PM

@wwaag, the code tags are the <> on the bar right side. Really hard to see in the preview pane because they arent obvious.

Musicvid wrote on 1/30/2019, 6:36 PM

This is something different, about trying to preserve as much quality as possible when converting from a DVD to a streaming video format.

Its a pretty low bar, because your DVD took 444 25 Mbps source and gave back 420 at a low bitrate. We don't get to unbake that cake.

MikeLV wrote on 2/16/2019, 3:24 PM

So I'm going along getting all my videos encoded using the script that you provided (which has been working great for converting the DVD video to 720P):

SetMemoryMax(1024)
SetFilterMTMode("DEFAULT_MT_MODE", 2)
AVISource("C:\ProgramData\HappyOtterScripts\Sony Vegas Pro\RenderPlus\fs_6688.avi").killAudio()
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true,matrix="PC.601")
AssumeFPS (30000, 1001)
AssumeBFF()
QTGMC(Preset="Fast", FPSDivisor=1)
LanczosResize(960,720)
AddBorders(160,0,160,0)
Prefetch(4)

But then I notice this odd effect when the player moves his hand up or down the neck quickly on this particular video:

What is this? And more importantly, how do I get rid of it? It doesn't look like the interlaced video from the DVD which looks like this:

wwaag wrote on 2/16/2019, 3:33 PM

Try increasing the quality of deinterlacing. You have it set at Fast. Try slower. If you upload a short clip that shows this, I'll have a look.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

MikeLV wrote on 2/16/2019, 3:42 PM

Ah, thank you, I will give Slower a try first, see how it works, and if not, I'll try to post that section from the original DVD video.

MikeLV wrote on 2/17/2019, 1:23 PM

The Slower deinterlace setting didn't seem to make a difference.

I tried to save a clip using Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD. But when I play it back on VLC, it doesn't look exactly like the original VOB I have on my Vegas timeline, even with deinterlacing turned off in VLC. What would be the best way to save a small piece so you can see it properly?

Actually, when I look at it on the player here on the forum, I can see the interlacing, so I guess it's correct. I can't understand why that weird ripple effect is in the MP4 file. I've been encoding a lot of these videos using the same settings, and these videos were all originally shot on the same camcorder too..

Musicvid wrote on 2/17/2019, 1:56 PM

QTGMC uses an advanced form of interpolation, which has shutter dependency, If you want the smoother effect, just use Blend because that's all it is.

Or pick a smoother deinterlacer such as yadif.

Or, you can add a tiny bit of track motion blur, which can work miracles.

wwaag wrote on 2/17/2019, 3:55 PM

@MikeLV

That judder could also be caused by an incorrect field order. Check your VOB in MediaInfo and make sure its Bottom Field First. If it's UpperFieldFirst, change Assume BFF to AssumeTFF. Let me know.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

wwaag wrote on 2/17/2019, 4:31 PM

@MikeLV

If the field order is correct and you want to upload a sample to DropBox or something, do this. First, create a loop region around the footage that is causing problems. Then select RenderToNewTrack under Tools or (Ctrl-M) and render using the default MPEG2 template as shown, making sure that your project field order and media field order are the same. The rendered file should be virtually identical to the original timeline file. Upload the rendered file.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Musicvid wrote on 2/17/2019, 9:47 PM

Did you render to 60p by chance? That would explain it.

I remember Wayne saying the fos checkbox order was reversed.

Anyway, your video clip looks great! I honestly wouldn't touch it.

MikeLV wrote on 2/18/2019, 11:27 AM

Did you render to 60p by chance? That would explain it.

I remember Wayne saying the fos checkbox order was reversed.

Anyway, your video clip looks great! I honestly wouldn't touch it.

@Musicvid Yes, the frame rate is 59.94 in the encoded video. Are you saying that is the reason for the ripply look? I will try it at the original frame rate and see what happens. The clip looks ok except for that weird effect, and it's a 2 hour video so it's going to be happening a lot. need to get rid of it =(

@wwaag, the field order is correct. It always seems to be lower/bottom field first on my videos.

wwaag wrote on 2/18/2019, 11:50 AM

@MikeLV

Then create a small sample for upload as described in my previous post.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

MikeLV wrote on 2/18/2019, 11:56 AM

Ok, here's the small sample using the render to new track with mpg2 ntsc

wwaag wrote on 2/18/2019, 1:25 PM

@MikeLV

A couple of things. Sorry for me not being clear, but by upload I meant to say that you should upload somewhere that I can in turn download for a closer look--not just uploading it to the forum. If necessary, I can provide a DropBox link.

I see that you have added graphics so that the actual video fills only a portion of the frame. Is the video being cropped or resized inside of Vegas? More information about your actual workflow and project settings would be very helpful.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Musicvid wrote on 2/18/2019, 3:01 PM

Mike, all NTSC DVD is flagged 29.97 interlaced. Nothing wrong with sixty p unless the playback is paused. Nothing to worry about but Wayne can show you how to render 29.97p in which case you should see fewer fingers but not quite as smooth playback. Again nothing is "wrong." It is called a bob render which is 100% legit.

Wayne would like see your render on a fileshare like Drive or Dropbox. He will assist you from here.

MikeLV wrote on 2/18/2019, 3:39 PM

Oh sorry, here is a link to download the MPG2: https://we.tl/t-EFRdsbLpV0

Also, as to the video being cropped or resized. When I originally created the video many years years ago, I'm sure I would have used track motion to resize the video. Again, I'm working from the finished DVD video, not the original project file and avi assets.

I understand nothing is wrong with the bob render, it's just really noticeable and looks odd to me.

wwaag wrote on 2/18/2019, 4:35 PM

@MikeLV

You wrote: "the field order is correct. It always seems to be lower/bottom field first on my videos.". The first file I downloaded from you a week or so ago was indeed BFF.

However, the file I downloaded today was TFF as shown here:

Check to make sure that your project settings are set correctly to BFF. That footage really looks like there is a reversal somewhere in your workflow.

 

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

MikeLV wrote on 2/18/2019, 4:44 PM

@wwaag That's because the file you downloaded today was the one you asked me to render using the MPEG2 NTSC template (whose default is indeed top field first) 😊

wwaag wrote on 2/18/2019, 7:43 PM

@MikeLV

After working awhile with that test clip, I think Musicvid was correct in suggesting that you deinterlace inside of Vegas using blend. Here is the result using HOS for uprezzing to 960 x 720 and doubling the frame rate. The actual renders (both 30P and 60P) can be found here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cg3z6k3x2g1ycwi/AAC6297iQvLUFLunaodrj_dka?dl=0

Here are the Vegas project settings and HOS Avisynth Filter settings. I just used the default render settings. Overall, I think it looks pretty good and certainly a lot better than "many fingers".

 

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

MikeLV wrote on 2/18/2019, 9:04 PM

I agree that looks much better! I don't think I can use your settings though, because I need 1280x720 and when I select that preset, it makes the video stretch out horizontally. I'll have to play around with the script I've been using and see if I can somehow achieve the same. I guess the biggest impact is using blend for deinterlace in Vegas instead of QTGMC for this particular video?

MikeLV wrote on 2/18/2019, 9:14 PM

I can't win today. Setting blend makes the hand motion look better. But then look what it does to the chord diagrams below. It makes them blurry, and they don't even move :( :( :( When I set deinterlace method to none in the project properties, they de-blur.

I just looked at your files on dropbox. How did you get them to 720P, without doing the borders thing you gave me in your script? And the chord diagrams in your video don't look as blurry either. When I put 1280x720, it stretched the picture out horizontally. I'm going to call it a night, my eyes are cooked.

Musicvid wrote on 2/18/2019, 10:30 PM

Musicvid, here's what your scripts provided:

https://dax702.wistia.com/medias/uu1u89rn51

I think it looks good; it's so hard for me to compare these things though, everything starts looking the same to my eyes after a while. I guess you'd want to see the original DVD video to see how it compares so I'll try to get a clip of that.

I hope it looks the same. Is that not what you wanted?

Mike, that scriot is the politically correct 30p version, such as in handbrake, which you liked and didn't have any complaints that I noticed.

Why did you then complain about the 60p version, which interpolates fields to 60 frames, doubling the number of fingers, which you did not like?

Is the finger count better in the 30p version, of which you already approved? You may be seeking a level of perfection beyond optimal, which always comes with a price tag. If you can't absorb the cost, be careful what you wish for. You fundamentally cannot have it both ways.