Help Please With LONG Render Times

crown2020 wrote on 10/1/2019, 3:31 PM

Hi. Guys. Newbie to Vegas Pro 17 here. I'm looking for advise. I'm confident I'm at the right place.

I've read some posts and forms that would indicate I do, and then again I don't, need to update my video card and or driver(s) to improve my render times. Here are my system specs:

Windows 10 Pro / 64 bit.

Dell Precision T3500 3.47GHz (so i7 I guess)

6 Core (12 threads Available at the hardware level), (16 available by default in host Vegas Pro 17, and can be increased).

24gb DDR3 Ram

Nvidia Quadro 4000 (installed with the OLDEST driver I could find on Nvidia's Site (R340), (341.96)

Hard Drives are Spinners (unfortunately). They are also in a RAID 1 Configuration. Both are 7200 rpm's

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I tried the OLDEST driver I could find on Nvidia's site because some of the folks posted on here it was the right thing to do. I will say the first time after I opened Vegas Pro 17 and having installed this R340 (341.96) driver, the software immediately recognized it. You could see on the GUI launch splash screen things were being initialized. The card was clearly being detected now by the Pro 17 software.

I went into several settings within the Pro 17 program. Here's what I've set:

*** Under options then preferences, General Tab, the "Enable Open Cl/Gl Interop for Intel GPU is NOT checked.??? ****

In the same dialogue box but VIDEO tab Dynamic Ram is 200MB and I've not changed that at all. (Per at least (1) posted issue with this).

In the same VIDEO tab, GPU Acceleration of Video Processing clearly has my Nvida card selected with the words "Optimal" at the very front of the text.

When I search, (as suggested in a You Tube video, for "GPU" under the Preferences then "Internal" Tab, there is nothing there to switch from "FALSE" to "TRUE".

Now, when trying to Render Video, the ONLY codex options that will even attempt allowing me to "Render using GPU if available" are the Sony AVC/MVC codex included stock with Pro 17. ALL others ARE NOT an option. It will let me select the option to "Render using GPU if available"   (Sony SD Codex), BUT, I suspect that it's not staying selected when I OK out to render. I say this because when I select the same codex again, let's say the Sony AVC/MVC SD 2Mbps option, it's defaulted back to "Render using CPU only".What a pain in my butt.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The source file specs, (I am trying to render as quick as possible with out sacrificing the quality of my project), are as follows:

MPEG-2 720x480x32 4:3 aspect ratio (about as basic as it gets).

MPEG Layer 2 Audio @ 4800 Hz Stereo

---------------------------------------------------------

The OUTput files I've tried to render are:

MainConcept MPEG-2 using one of the DVD Architect Specs, (14-15 hours to Render) NO option on this codex for acceleration as noted above. *** NOTE***: I'm Rendering out around 1/2 or just a bit less of the 5 hour project using this MainConcept MPEG-2 and DVD Architect Specs as to create and render (2) separate files. This is to fit 1 of the files later on a DVD9 and the other split file on a DVD5. Maybe that's why the 1 hour slower give or take?

Also tried Sony AVC/MVC SD "Memory Stick" 2Mbps option. (I did select Render using GPU if Available) for this codex. *** I'm just not sure if it STAYED selected. *** (15-16 hours to Render). So, about 1 hour slower give or take. Wow. and it's all one file.

It's worth noting I'm running (2) instances of the software here. The cpu does not appear to be taxed. It's at about 50-55% with both instances running the described above encodes.

So, as you can see, I had since enough to buy a good Vegas Pro 17 piece of software. I just need help getting my system optimized for production. I'd LIKE to see this 5 hour file encoded in 50-60% LESS time than it's original 5 hour file size.

Please, show some love. I'm all ears here. I have to be. I've just about pulled out all my HAIR around them. :)

Comments

Sylk wrote on 10/1/2019, 6:00 PM
Dell Precision T3500 3.47GHz (so i7 I guess)

No, Intel Xeon w3690

Software:
[OS]  : Windows 10 Ent. x64 v1903 (18362.535)
[NLE] : Vegas Pro 17.0 (Build 321) // (Build 284 if posted before 9/24/19)
[DRV] : Studio 431.86 (Display, PhysX, HD Audio) // (Game Ready 436.15 if posted before 9/24/19)
Hardware:
[GPU] : Gainward GeForce GTX 1080 Phoenix GLH
[CPU] : Intel Core i7-2600K @3.4GHz OC@4.5GHz (HyperThreaded) | AirCooling: Noctua NH-D14
[RAM] : 16GB (4x 4GB GSkill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24) @1333MHz
[SSD] : Samsung 860 Pro 1TB
[MOB] : Asus P8P67 Deluxe (Rev.1), No iGPU support
[PSU] : Corsair HX750
Devices:
[DSP1]: 30" DELL UltraSharp U3011 @2560x1600
[DSP2]: 26" iiyama ProLite E2607WS @1920x1200

[UPS] : Eaton 5PX 2200i RT

[CAM] : GoPro Hero8/4/3 Black. Apple iPhone 6S.

 

crown2020 wrote on 10/1/2019, 8:44 PM

@ JN, Thanks for the information and the suggestion. So, your ISO took 7.5 hours? I assume that is 1.5x MORE THAN the total video size because your video is also only 5 hours. Do you think that good seeing as you did have a filter applied? That's still not to bad, especially compared to my 5 hour file taking 14-16 hours to render. And your mp4 took 50% (1/2) - 66% (2/3) LESS THAN or also MORE THAN your 5 hour video?

Please advise if I'm understand you correctly. Again, 14-16 hours for me total and the video and audio is right at 5 hours. I have 2-3 filters applied and chapter markers every 30 minutes of the 5 hours. Audio matches the 5 hours as well. It's "Audio: 05:00:01.224, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, MPEG Layer 2"

It did not matter if I used just the CPU to render or the GPU option. It still took about the same amount of time. So, do you think it's the best I'm going to get? Would a SD drive help any? Perhaps a different video card if my settings I posted were correct?

Regarding the bit rate NOT being 32 bit in Video project properties, I assume your talking about the Pixel Format? See my attachment. It's at 8. In the meantime, I'm going to study what my bottle neck is and look for solutions I guess. Look for to your clarification as to my questions. Thanks again.

 

 

crown2020 wrote on 10/1/2019, 8:47 PM

@ Sylk, Thanks for the clarification. The system is new to me. I guess I'm in better shape than I thought I was? Thanks again.

Sylk wrote on 10/1/2019, 8:58 PM

@crown2020 you're welcome but you need to check and confirm your system.

Also, You might perform a benchmark to get an idea of your system performances: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/benchmarking--116285/

 

When I search, (as suggested in a You Tube video, for "GPU" under the Preferences then "Internal" Tab, there is nothing there to switch from "FALSE" to "TRUE".

Hold down Shift key and open the Preferences window, but be careful with what you change.

 

Last changed by Sylk on 10/1/2019, 9:05 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Software:
[OS]  : Windows 10 Ent. x64 v1903 (18362.535)
[NLE] : Vegas Pro 17.0 (Build 321) // (Build 284 if posted before 9/24/19)
[DRV] : Studio 431.86 (Display, PhysX, HD Audio) // (Game Ready 436.15 if posted before 9/24/19)
Hardware:
[GPU] : Gainward GeForce GTX 1080 Phoenix GLH
[CPU] : Intel Core i7-2600K @3.4GHz OC@4.5GHz (HyperThreaded) | AirCooling: Noctua NH-D14
[RAM] : 16GB (4x 4GB GSkill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24) @1333MHz
[SSD] : Samsung 860 Pro 1TB
[MOB] : Asus P8P67 Deluxe (Rev.1), No iGPU support
[PSU] : Corsair HX750
Devices:
[DSP1]: 30" DELL UltraSharp U3011 @2560x1600
[DSP2]: 26" iiyama ProLite E2607WS @1920x1200

[UPS] : Eaton 5PX 2200i RT

[CAM] : GoPro Hero8/4/3 Black. Apple iPhone 6S.

 

crown2020 wrote on 10/1/2019, 9:18 PM

I'll check into that. I can tell you I had (3) instances open and encoding. The CPU stayed below 70 %

Sylk wrote on 10/1/2019, 9:32 PM

The CPU stayed below 70 %

CPU encoding? What encoder? 70%? Many wasted power. This sounds like a power management defined on eco mode.

Software:
[OS]  : Windows 10 Ent. x64 v1903 (18362.535)
[NLE] : Vegas Pro 17.0 (Build 321) // (Build 284 if posted before 9/24/19)
[DRV] : Studio 431.86 (Display, PhysX, HD Audio) // (Game Ready 436.15 if posted before 9/24/19)
Hardware:
[GPU] : Gainward GeForce GTX 1080 Phoenix GLH
[CPU] : Intel Core i7-2600K @3.4GHz OC@4.5GHz (HyperThreaded) | AirCooling: Noctua NH-D14
[RAM] : 16GB (4x 4GB GSkill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24) @1333MHz
[SSD] : Samsung 860 Pro 1TB
[MOB] : Asus P8P67 Deluxe (Rev.1), No iGPU support
[PSU] : Corsair HX750
Devices:
[DSP1]: 30" DELL UltraSharp U3011 @2560x1600
[DSP2]: 26" iiyama ProLite E2607WS @1920x1200

[UPS] : Eaton 5PX 2200i RT

[CAM] : GoPro Hero8/4/3 Black. Apple iPhone 6S.

 

EricLNZ wrote on 10/1/2019, 10:23 PM

@crown2020 Your render times seem very slow for SD. You mentioned you apply 2-3 filters. What are they and are you applying them to the entire video?

crown2020 wrote on 10/1/2019, 10:35 PM

@ Sylk - I was referring to this screen shot here concerning the 70%. It's the CPU usage provided by Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, (in my case).

 

 

 

crown2020 wrote on 10/1/2019, 10:49 PM

@ EricLNZ - I thought it was extremely slow to. I have a global filter on the whole 5 hours with "Color Curves". It came with Pro 17. Each clip "section" that received an "S split" has Brightness and Contrast, (Came with Pro 17 also). Each clip also has a purchased plug in from Borris FX. It's called "BCC-Flicker Fixer". So, I guess 3 plug in's applied in one way or another across the entire video 5 hour video. It might be worth also noting that I pretty much did a manual edit of around 500,000 individual frames. There were A LOT of little splits that removed 1-3 frames each time I did a split. Hope this info helps you to help me. Thanks again for all your input and time.

RonB_USA wrote on 10/1/2019, 11:22 PM

My new build has the Quadro RTX 4000 8GB GPU and the build has the very latest drivers top to bottom. Windows 10 Pro. Very fast rendering of 4K to HD -- a 30-min 4K to HD video in 13 minutes. About 4X to 6X faster than my old build. This has i9 9900KF 8-core with 64GB RAM. Two M.2 2TB SSDs on the ASUS Prime Z390 motherboard. So maybe you should try the new 4000 drivers.

Here is what my builder told me: "We typically use only the studio / production drivers for any and all Quadro cards in systems we build direct from NVIDIA. They usually update those drivers often too, average about every two weeks on Mondays."

UPDATE: Hmmm. I have my Open CL/GL Intel GPU checked in General Preferences. Dynamic RAM at 200.

Last changed by RonB_USA on 10/1/2019, 11:34 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

RonB_USA

VEGAS Pro 18 Suite (Aug 10, 2020) and Windows 10 Pro. Most source footage is XAVC-S 4K.

Intel i9-10920X 12 Core 24 Thread, ASUS PRIME X299-A II motherboard (3.7GHz), Quadro RTX-4000 8GB GPU, 64GB DDR4 RAM, Two M.2 2TB SSD + several TB of HDD

EricLNZ wrote on 10/2/2019, 12:32 AM

@crown2020 I wouldn't expect Color Curves or B&C to slow render down significantly but I wonder about "BCC-Flicker Fixer". Just a guess as I've no experience with it,

Sylk wrote on 10/2/2019, 12:49 AM

@ Sylk - I was referring to this screen shot here concerning the 70%. It's the CPU usage provided by Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, (in my case).

 

Good reference, however prefer show all logical cores stats (right-click on graph).

An other thing i notice ; your GPU doesn't appear?? Just to be sure, it's a Quadro 4000 RTX or not RTX ?

At least the CPU model is confirmed.

 

Last changed by Sylk on 10/2/2019, 12:54 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Software:
[OS]  : Windows 10 Ent. x64 v1903 (18362.535)
[NLE] : Vegas Pro 17.0 (Build 321) // (Build 284 if posted before 9/24/19)
[DRV] : Studio 431.86 (Display, PhysX, HD Audio) // (Game Ready 436.15 if posted before 9/24/19)
Hardware:
[GPU] : Gainward GeForce GTX 1080 Phoenix GLH
[CPU] : Intel Core i7-2600K @3.4GHz OC@4.5GHz (HyperThreaded) | AirCooling: Noctua NH-D14
[RAM] : 16GB (4x 4GB GSkill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24) @1333MHz
[SSD] : Samsung 860 Pro 1TB
[MOB] : Asus P8P67 Deluxe (Rev.1), No iGPU support
[PSU] : Corsair HX750
Devices:
[DSP1]: 30" DELL UltraSharp U3011 @2560x1600
[DSP2]: 26" iiyama ProLite E2607WS @1920x1200

[UPS] : Eaton 5PX 2200i RT

[CAM] : GoPro Hero8/4/3 Black. Apple iPhone 6S.

 

Dexcon wrote on 10/2/2019, 5:29 AM

@crown2020 … In my experience, BCC Flicker Fixer results in very, very slow render times for the video event/s on which it is applied.

A suggestion: Render a short segment of your project ('Render Loop Region Only' under Render Options in the Render window) with BCC Flicker Fixer enabled, and then render the same segment with BCC Flicker Fixer disabled, and note the render time for each render. I would think that the render with BCC FF disabled will be significantly quicker.

Last changed by Dexcon on 10/2/2019, 5:43 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

Windows 10 Home

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD

D drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

E & F drives: 2 x 2TB Barracuda HDDs 2.5"

 

crown2020 wrote on 10/2/2019, 11:50 AM

 

@Sylk - Apparently NOT RTX. And thanks for the Right Click tip on the graph. When you said my GPU is not showing on the previously posted graph, your saying the GPU portion of my graphics card SHOULD show here?

 

 

 

crown2020 wrote on 10/2/2019, 12:00 PM

RonB_USA@ - Thanks for sharing. However my card is not an RTX. I used the oldest drivers I could find because everyone is saying that's the way to go. There ARE newer drivers available. I'm just not sure if I should give that a try or not. Again, I've seen posts on this and like forms that would indicate I should be using R340 (341.05) or older drivers for some support reason(s) I think. The OLDEST available on Nvida's site was R340 (341.96) What I'm not sure of is what the changes may have been to the driver from .05 to .96. Relatively small number jump, but that does not mean anything. It could have been a MAJOR incompatibility change for my card and/or my host (Vegas Pro 17). I feel like a doctor in a white coat preforming guess work. 😄

I guess I'll try checking "Open CL/GL Intel GPU" again to to if it makes any difference. Seems i tried it checked and unchecked but no difference for me in performance.

UPDATE: I might try the latest drivers for my card as well IF that's what you were suggesting when I clarified my model number of video card.

 

crown2020 wrote on 10/2/2019, 12:57 PM

@Former user Thank you so much for your information. Sounds like plugin's, in general, really do slow a system down. Some more than others. In my case, based on the 100 sec. test info you just provided me, it would appear I need to use LESS plug in's when possible, and, get an updated graphics card.

crown2020 wrote on 10/2/2019, 1:04 PM

@Dexcon - I have a support call into Borris FX. Less see what they tell me there "BCC-Flicker Fixer" SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be doing to my render times. I will also try your suggestion of rendering, (without the filters), to see the render times.

Musicvid wrote on 10/2/2019, 1:38 PM

Each clip "section" that received an "S split" has Brightness and Contrast, (Came with Pro 17 also). Each clip also has a purchased plug in from Borris FX. It's called "BCC-Flicker Fixer". So, I guess 3 plug in's applied in one way or another across the entire video 5 hour video. It might be worth also noting that I pretty much did a manual edit of around 500,000 individual frames.

That is all the information needed, in this case. Yes, you can expect very long renders.

crown2020 wrote on 10/2/2019, 3:02 PM

@Sylk

In a previous post to me you wrote:

"CPU encoding? What encoder? 70%? Many wasted power. This sounds like a power management defined on eco mode."

First what is eco mode? Are you referring to the CPU fan's power management?

Because you brought up power management, I have a question. I woke up to a project that Vegas Pro said, last night, should have been completed by 7 am THIS am 10-02-19. It was, and STILL is rendering!

Can I trust Vegas Pro 17's estimated completion times? Are they generally correct?

Can I have (2) project files for the same source file and render those (2) project files in 2-3 instances? Will it cause rendering to slow WAY down. Like a 14 hour render taking 22 hours for example.

All feel free to chime in. I'd value your thoughts.

 

 

crown2020 wrote on 10/2/2019, 3:09 PM

@Musicvid - Thanks for your input. Do you think it's the filters as a whole or just the BCC-Flicker fixer? Is it all the splits? In other words, is a filter or filers causing more of the rendering issue(s), (in your opinion), than all my splits. Thanks for you time.

crown2020 wrote on 10/2/2019, 4:26 PM

@Former user - Why go through continues hours and hours of "testing", (as I have), and RETESTING, (more to the point), if someone in the community already has the answer? Perhaps you are correct. I should post some more of my results. That way you don't think your the only one suffering here.

The "short piece of your own SD" you say I should post results for? With all due respect, If I've already posted a LOT of information regarding what I HAVE tested, (with 11+ hour long render times), what would one expect to see from a "short test" that's not already been addressed in the actual project I've been posting about.

As to my Borris FX support call, I have no way of knowing how the plug in is supposed to behave or what it's optimized for. They do. All I can swear to is how MY plug in is acting.

Asking people for there experienced advise, (eg: there millage with plug in's), I don't see as a bad thing. Thank you for the tests you ran. I did take notice. The last thing I want ANYONE on here to think is that I wan't them to do MY TESTING for me.

Sylk wrote on 10/2/2019, 5:21 PM

@Sylk

In a previous post to me you wrote:

"CPU encoding? What encoder? 70%? Many wasted power. This sounds like a power management defined on eco mode."

First what is eco mode? Are you referring to the CPU fan's power management?

Because you brought up power management, I have a question. I woke up to a project that Vegas Pro said, last night, should have been completed by 7 am THIS am 10-02-19. It was, and STILL is rendering!

Can I trust Vegas Pro 17's estimated completion times? Are they generally correct?

Can I have (2) project files for the same source file and render those (2) project files in 2-3 instances? Will it cause rendering to slow WAY down. Like a 14 hour render taking 22 hours for example.

Eco mode is "Power Saver" from power management window. Try "High Performance".

Estimated time is an estimation based on the time took to rendering the last frame. E.g. if your edit is just a single color during one minute and the next minute is a video with an FX, then the first minute take few seconds, estimated time shows you few seconds but the last minute will take one hour.

Yes you can use multiple instance with same files, but take more time since the cpu usage is divided.

In my case, 1 encoding use full cpu capabilities (100% for each core), if i launch another encoding it will more long, but if one of yours take only 20%, 3 will take 60% so render speed should not really slowed.

Software:
[OS]  : Windows 10 Ent. x64 v1903 (18362.535)
[NLE] : Vegas Pro 17.0 (Build 321) // (Build 284 if posted before 9/24/19)
[DRV] : Studio 431.86 (Display, PhysX, HD Audio) // (Game Ready 436.15 if posted before 9/24/19)
Hardware:
[GPU] : Gainward GeForce GTX 1080 Phoenix GLH
[CPU] : Intel Core i7-2600K @3.4GHz OC@4.5GHz (HyperThreaded) | AirCooling: Noctua NH-D14
[RAM] : 16GB (4x 4GB GSkill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24) @1333MHz
[SSD] : Samsung 860 Pro 1TB
[MOB] : Asus P8P67 Deluxe (Rev.1), No iGPU support
[PSU] : Corsair HX750
Devices:
[DSP1]: 30" DELL UltraSharp U3011 @2560x1600
[DSP2]: 26" iiyama ProLite E2607WS @1920x1200

[UPS] : Eaton 5PX 2200i RT

[CAM] : GoPro Hero8/4/3 Black. Apple iPhone 6S.

 

crown2020 wrote on 10/2/2019, 7:57 PM

@Former user - I'm already considering an upgrade. I think my graphics card that came with this used system I bought is not sufficient. I think the two 1TB 7200 rpm spinners, (in a Raid 1 configuration), are to slow and need to be at least one SSD. If I had a Nvida Tesla V100 16GB, that would not hurt a thing.🤑 But, before I go throwing $ at upgrades, I'm going to try and get the best I can out of this unit. I will preform some of these suggested tests and post soon. Thanks for your time and suggestions.

crown2020 wrote on 10/2/2019, 8:50 PM

@Sylk Trying to set my system preform ace to "High Performance" as you suggested. However, the settings don't want to take. (See short video). I also show you some other settings I have. The very end of the clip is puzzling. As you can see, when I went back into the window, performance was not still selected. Any ideas?

I looked for a max file attachment allowed size for this form. I could not find one. Do you know what it is? The file is a .mp4 and It's 494mb in size.

Also, how do people get there mouse pointer visible in there videos? I'd like mine like yours in your video if I have the ability. A little off topic, but, I kinda need to know that don't you think?

Thanks again.