Image Quality of PNG Images Sequence Output!

aboammar wrote on 4/9/2019, 8:23 PM

Hi everyone,

I exported from CorelDraw high resolution PNG business graphics (4,395 x 2,480 pixels) and into Vegas Pro 16 in order to animate it. However, the output (1920 x 1080 pixels) PNG frames sequence are very soft! I tried everything I know and could not get razor sharp images!

What is going one? Is this a bug in Vegas Pro 16? Anyone facing this problem?

Here is the PNG output from CorelDarw:

https://i.postimg.cc/HnGQB56m/Corel-Draw-Output.png

 

Here is the PNG output from CorelDarw downscaled to FullHD:

https://i.postimg.cc/9fnPwsTr/Corel-Draw-Output-Full-HD.png

 

Here is the Vegas Pro PNG output:

https://i.postimg.cc/13zN0Jy6/Charts-Animation-2-000549-000496.png

 

Appreciate any feedback ..

Last changed by aboammar

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Comments

Musicvid wrote on 4/9/2019, 10:13 PM

Vegas must downsample your 4K+ images to use in a 1080p project. Usually, Bicubic sampling is good enough. But not always.

My preferred method, which should be sharper, probably identical to your still, is to save your Corel vector stills exactly at Vegas project (render) resolution, as your Corel PNG.

My rationale for this method, which still seems valid in Vegas today, is that two downsamples (with collateral dither noise), are worse than one. I first wrote this hint 1999 in the Pinnacle Studio DC10+ forum.

eikira wrote on 4/9/2019, 11:44 PM

@aboammar are you talking about the export through the render process or the snapshot function?

in both cases, could it be you have set the project quality on preview full or similar settings instead of optimal full?

Marco. wrote on 4/10/2019, 5:11 AM

I notice the Vegas output is not only downsized to HD but it is further downsized using some kind of PiP fx. Which PiP fx was this? Pan/Crop? Track Motion? PiP FX plug-in?
And it looks like some other fx were used in your Vegas Pro project. Which ones?

If in Vegas Pro I just downsize your 4.395 x 2.480 source to HD I get exactly same sharpness as your CorelDraw HD output.

john_dennis wrote on 4/10/2019, 8:15 AM

@aboammar

Try putting your 4,395 x 2,480 images from Corel in a 4096 x 2304 16:9 Widescreen TV Aspect Ratio Crop in Pan/Crop on the Vegas timeline.

Default Crop

 

4096 x 2304 16:9 Widescreen TV Aspect Ratio Crop

SWAG

Your incoming images are not 16 x 9 and they are being reshaped needlessly in Vegas just to make the white border fit into the 16 x 9 box.

/SWAG

Alternatively, export from Corel at 4096 x 2304.

"razor sharp images" happen when the source pixels line up with the output pixels exactly.

john_dennis wrote on 4/10/2019, 8:26 AM

I've found this table very handy for making pixels line up.

john_dennis wrote on 4/10/2019, 8:46 AM

The final pixel dimensions of your graphic once you add all the filigree is about 720p not full HD or UHD. You're giving up a lot of detail for style. 

aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:01 PM

Vegas must downsample your 4K+ images to use in a 1080p project. Usually, Bicubic sampling is good enough. But not always.

My preferred method, which should be sharper, probably identical to your still, is to save your Corel vector stills exactly at Vegas project (render) resolution, as your Corel PNG.

My rationale for this method, which still seems valid in Vegas today, is that two downsamples (with collateral dither noise), are worse than one. I first wrote this hint ca. 1990 in the Pinnacle Studio DC10+ forum.

I tried as you said, using FullHD res from Corel and it did not help!

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aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:04 PM

@aboammar are you talking about the export through the render process or the snapshot function?

in both cases, could it be you have set the project quality on preview full or similar settings instead of optimal full?

It's Image Sequence output through rendering and project preview setting does not affect that as far as I know!

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aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:09 PM

I notice the Vegas output is not only downsized to HD but it is further downsized using some kind of PiP fx. Which PiP fx was this? Pan/Crop? Track Motion? PiP FX plug-in?
And it looks like some other fx were used in your Vegas Pro project. Which ones?

If in Vegas Pro I just downsize your 4.395 x 2.480 source to HD I get exactly same sharpness as your CorelDraw HD output.

I did not use any effect plugin .. I only downsized the images using the standard event Pan/Crop!

"If in Vegas Pro I just downsize your 4.395 x 2.480 source to HD I get exactly same sharpness as your CorelDraw HD output." Did you render it as PNG sequence?

Last changed by aboammar on 4/10/2019, 6:19 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Marco. wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:15 PM

Yes, I rendered to a PNG sequence.

Could you share your Vegas Pro project file for download (no media needed)?

aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:19 PM

@aboammar

Try putting your 4,395 x 2,480 images from Corel in a 4096 x 2304 16:9 Widescreen TV Aspect Ratio Crop in Pan/Crop on the Vegas timeline.

Default Crop

 

4096 x 2304 16:9 Widescreen TV Aspect Ratio Crop

SWAG

Your incoming images are not 16 x 9 and they are being reshaped needlessly in Vegas just to make the white border fit into the 16 x 9 box.

/SWAG

Alternatively, export from Corel at 4096 x 2304.

"razor sharp images" happen when the source pixels line up with the output pixels exactly.

Will try your idea and get back with the results .. thanks

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Mindmatter wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:19 PM

not sure if this helps, but in my last project, I dealt primarily with photos, either stop motions or entire backgrounds. I took all the pics with either a canon 5D or a Sony A7s, both in their respective RAW. Depending on what I needed, I downsized the jpeg export in Lightroom to 1920x1080, but mostly 150dpi so that I had some margin to zoom in. Some people export at exactly 72 dpi, the screen resolution. I occasionally exported at 4k but in that case it was so that I could navigate and zoom inside the 4k or even full frame resolution with a HD 1080 frame. In that case, I put the crop size also to 4k.

I never encountered sharpness issues, ot with PNG or jpeg, but at times Vegas had a hard time dealing with the high res versions and did funny things.

Last changed by Mindmatter on 4/10/2019, 6:24 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

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aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:21 PM

Yes, I rendered to a PNG sequence.

Could you share your Vegas Pro project file for download (no media needed)?

Sure .. will upload the project with the media used .. all media are still images so it is not big.

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aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:49 PM

You may download the Vegas Project file and images used from the following link:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/1d34v3prgd3atws/Cahrt_Animation.zip/file

 

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aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:50 PM

not sure if this helps, but in my last project, I dealt primarily with photos, either stop motions or entire backgrounds. I took all the pics with either a canon 5D or a Sony A7s, both in their respective RAW. Depending on what I needed, I downsized the jpeg export in Lightroom to 1920x1080, but mostly 150dpi so that I had some margin to zoom in. Some people export at exactly 72 dpi, the screen resolution. I occasionally exported at 4k but in that case it was so that I could navigate and zoom inside the 4k or even full frame resolution with a HD 1080 frame. In that case, I put the crop size also to 4k.

I never encountered sharpness issues, ot with PNG or jpeg, but at times Vegas had a hard time dealing with the high res versions and did funny things.

Thanks for sharing

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aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 6:52 PM

The final pixel dimensions of your graphic once you add all the filigree is about 720p not full HD or UHD. You're giving up a lot of detail for style. 

You are correct, but that should not make the output looks fuzzy when displayed at 1:1 right?

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Marco. wrote on 4/10/2019, 7:06 PM

This project is different from what you described in your first post. There are several pics of 2.260x2.260 downscaled to only 200x200 (on a HD background frame).

Are you sure this is same thing as you did in Corel Draw?

Also, in Vegas Pro did you ensure your render quality is set to "Best"? When scaling is done this can make a big difference to the default setting (which is "Good").

aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 7:34 PM

This project is different from what you described in your first post. There are several pics of 2.260x2.260 downscaled to only 200x200 (on a HD background frame).

Are you sure this is same thing as you did in Corel Draw?

Ops! You are correct! .. this project was my second attempt using individual elements and by a stupid mistake, I saved it with the same name over the previous one 😫

 

And yes, I always ensure my render quality is set to Best, not Good

Last changed by aboammar on 4/10/2019, 7:36 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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john_dennis wrote on 4/10/2019, 7:37 PM

I could not open your Vegas 16 project in Vegas 15 so I created one in Vegas 15.

I used Pan/Crop to do all scaling and placement in a 3840 x 2160 project and rendered to 1920 x 1080.

You can download it here.

The result looks like this:

karma17 wrote on 4/10/2019, 9:06 PM

Second Music Vid's suggestion. Whenever I have to import image sequences (which I do frequently), I match and render the output resolution I want in Vegas from the source software. I believe that gives a fairly consistent result.

aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 9:49 PM

I could not open your Vegas 16 project in Vegas 15 so I created one in Vegas 15.

I used Pan/Crop to do all scaling and placement in a 3840 x 2160 project and rendered to 1920 x 1080.

You can download it here.

The result looks like this:

Thanks John ..

The animation supposed to look like this which will match the VO:

And I want to export it as PNG image sequence to send it to 3rd party but I am not quite happy with PNG quality!

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aboammar wrote on 4/10/2019, 9:52 PM

Second Music Vid's suggestion. Whenever I have to import image sequences (which I do frequently), I match and render the output resolution I want in Vegas from the source software. I believe that gives a fairly consistent result.

I am not sure I got what you mean! Would you please elaborate?

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fr0sty wrote on 4/10/2019, 10:28 PM

He means that the image you export from Corel Draw should be exported at the same resolution as the video you are putting it into, rather than rendering a 4,395 x 2,480 pixels image out of Corel.

Vegas max resolution is 4096x4096, so because you are going wider than that, Vegas has to downsample once. This first downsample is probably ok quality, but because you are rendering to 1080p Vegas then has to do another downsample, as explained above, and that results in a blurry image. You can only downsample so much while keeping sharp detail.

 

Last changed by fr0sty on 4/10/2019, 10:35 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

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Marco. wrote on 4/11/2019, 3:57 AM

@aboammar
These colored circles with text in it – are these ready-made graphics or did you put the text into them in CorelDRAW?