Image Quality of PNG Images Sequence Output!

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Musicvid wrote on 4/11/2019, 1:46 PM

karma17 wrote on 4/10/2019, 8:06 PM

Second Music Vid's suggestion. Whenever I have to import image sequences (which I do frequently), I match and render the output resolution I want in Vegas from the source software. I believe that gives a fairly consistent result.

"Import Stills at Project Resolution" has been a personal mantra since Vegas Video 2, and before.

  • For video output sharpness identical to that of the source image, doing this has become a habit for me, not an inconvenience. It is especially important with generated vector image source, such as Corel and Adobe.
  • I've learned that it's a good idea to retest and confirm conclusions, at least once every decade or two. Thanks, @karma17 for cueing me to do so. This test should be self-explanatory, and view at 100% on your monitor to see the dithering (aliasing) effects of Vegas' project scaling of imported stills. Closer examination at higher magnifications reveal the only identical line is the centermost one, graded red here for easy identification. This new test is from VP14. The output render frame is here, in order to bypass the forum software.
  • https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a_co3sXnoCwDPb1dzMmGxOMTJVKbVEV7/view?usp=sharing
  • On the right is the original generated 1920x1080 vertical resolution chart at 540 lines {for downsampling integrity}. On the left is the same image padded to 1924X1080 {red border}, with project downscaling permitted at Preserve Aspect. This test illustrates only a 0.2% reduction in scaling from project resolution.

{To view the forum image at 100%, click the thumbnail, right-click the image and "VIew Image." Then, adjust your browser magnification to display 100%, with no moire.}

[EDIT] A second comparison, using a vector source rasterized to different resolutions, was inconclusive, and did not confirm this result. Will look into further.

 

aboammar wrote on 4/12/2019, 3:39 PM

He means that the image you export from Corel Draw should be exported at the same resolution as the video you are putting it into, rather than rendering a 4,395 x 2,480 pixels image out of Corel.

Vegas max resolution is 4096x4096, so because you are going wider than that, Vegas has to downsample once. This first downsample is probably ok quality, but because you are rendering to 1080p Vegas then has to do another downsample, as explained above, and that results in a blurry image. You can only downsample so much while keeping sharp detail.

 

Thanks for explaining .. but I already tried that and it did not make a noticeable difference!

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aboammar wrote on 4/12/2019, 3:43 PM

@aboammar
These colored circles with text in it – are these ready-made graphics or did you put the text into them in CorelDRAW?

I made the colored circles in Xara Designer Pro X and exported it to CorelDraw where I finished the rest including adding the text.

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Marco. wrote on 4/12/2019, 4:04 PM

If the text was done in CorelDRAW and then same object scaled in CorelDRAW then this is impossible to compare the scaling of an output graphic in Vegas Pro. In CorelDRAW you scaled a vector text to HD. In Vegas Pro you scaled a 2k bitmap graphic to less than SD.

aboammar wrote on 4/12/2019, 4:08 PM

karma17 wrote on 4/10/2019, 8:06 PM

Second Music Vid's suggestion. Whenever I have to import image sequences (which I do frequently), I match and render the output resolution I want in Vegas from the source software. I believe that gives a fairly consistent result.

"Import Stills at Project Resolution" has been a personal mantra since Vegas Video 2, and before.

  • For video output sharpness identical to that of the source image, doing this has become a habit for me, not an inconvenience. It is especially important with generated vector image source, such as Corel and Adobe.
  • I've learned that it's a good idea to retest and confirm conclusions, at least once every decade or two. Thanks, @karma17 for cueing me to do so. This test should be self-explanatory, and view at 100% on your monitor to see the dithering (aliasing) effects of Vegas' project scaling of imported stills. Closer examination at higher magnifications reveal the only identical line is the centermost one, graded red here for easy identification. This new test is from VP14. The output render frame is here, in order to bypass the forum software.
  • https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a_co3sXnoCwDPb1dzMmGxOMTJVKbVEV7/view?usp=sharing
  • On the right is the original generated 1920x1080 vertical resolution chart at 540 lines {for downsampling integrity}. On the left is the same image padded to 1924X1080 {red border}, with project downscaling permitted at Preserve Aspect. This test illustrates only a 0.2% reduction in scaling from project resolution.

{To view the forum image at 100%, click the thumbnail, right-click the image and "VIew Image." Then, adjust your browser magnification to display 100%, with no moire.}

[EDIT] A second comparison, using a vector source rasterized to different resolutions, was inconclusive, and did not confirm this result. Will look into further.

 

I will not pretend to know what you wrote because I did not get most of it! Either I am getting too old or I am not that technical 😅

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aboammar wrote on 4/12/2019, 4:12 PM

If the text was done in CorelDRAW and then same object scaled in CorelDRAW then this is impossible to compare the scaling of an output graphic in Vegas Pro. In CorelDRAW you scaled a vector text to HD. In Vegas Pro you scaled a 2k bitmap graphic to less than SD.

So is it impossible to get a sharp PNG images out of Vegas Pro?

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Musicvid wrote on 4/12/2019, 7:21 PM

Can you make a vector EPS or CDR file in Corel, and export that as PNG at a variety of resolutions, to test and see how they look in your project? That should save your text, if it isn't already raster.

I would be very interested in your conclusions about downsampling vs. exporting at Vegas project resolution, as that is what I've been playing with in Photoshop today.

Marco. wrote on 4/13/2019, 5:22 AM

"So is it impossible to get a sharp PNG images out of Vegas Pro?"

I'd say it's vice versa dependend how you look on it. If you do same processes in CorelDRAW and in Vegas Pro, the sharpness of the Vegas Pro output would be the same as the sharpness of the CorelDRAW output.
But you cannot expect to get same result using different processes. If you scale a vector text in one place but scale a text baked-in into a bitmap graphic, it's hard to get same quality in the end.
This was all just a try to explain the results you saw.

Now as you can't transfer the vector objects from CorelDRAW to Vegas Pro you'd need to find a workflow to get the things prepared in an optimum way which then finally would prevent needless quality drops.
And the best way to go probably is what Musicvid already proposed – get the CorelDRAW output (with all the vector objects scaling done inside) in a frame size which would not need any more scaling in Vegas Pro.
The hard thing maybe is, it isn't just a 2k to HD scaling in CorelDRAW because in the end in Vegas Pro these "circle-with-text-objects" are much smaller. As I mentioned in another post, to me it looks like finally these circles are only about 200x200 pixels. So maybe try this in CorelDRAW.

Musicvid wrote on 4/13/2019, 9:18 AM

Everyone may not understand the difference between Vector vs. Raster graphics, since most imaging and all video is the latter.

That said, my tests with monochrome line art I rasterized in Phoshop are looking a little better when imported at higher-than project project resolution, while greyscale and camera stills are apparently sharper imported exactly at project resolution. hmmm...

That one might keep me busy for a while. Gonna try the whole thing over in Illustrator, time permitting. My copy of Corel is twenty years old.

Detail and 200x200 are not a thing. They are icons.

Marco. wrote on 4/13/2019, 11:22 AM

"Detail and 200x200 are not a thing. They are icons."

The thing about them is, these "icons" are 2260x2260 in CorelDRAW and they include text – and the text object is the critical part which will lose sharpness in the end. Then the icons (with text) are exported from CorelDRAW as 2260x2260 bitmap graphic. Then they are downsized in Vegas Pro by using them in an HD project and they are further downsized from full frame to icon size of about 200x200.

Musicvid wrote on 4/13/2019, 6:20 PM

Yes, I understand, yet I question if text that small will ever play well, regardless of media input resolution. Seems like a high expectation.

The "icon" reference to the low output resolution was just hyperbole.

aboammar wrote on 4/13/2019, 9:26 PM

Can you make a vector EPS or CDR file in Corel, and export that as PNG at a variety of resolutions, to test and see how they look in your project? That should save your text, if it isn't already raster.

I would be very interested in your conclusions about downsampling vs. exporting at Vegas project resolution, as that is what I've been playing with in Photoshop today.

Sure .. will do that when I have free time and update you.

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Musicvid wrote on 4/13/2019, 9:56 PM

I would love to experiment with it when you have time, that's a real interest. I am getting some mixed results in my own line-art resolution tests this week. Can you possibly make the graphics larger than 200x200 in your project? That, of course, is your most limiting factor. Sorry I did not catch onto that sooner.

aboammar wrote on 4/16/2019, 6:32 AM

I would love to experiment with it when you have time, that's a real interest. I am getting some mixed results in my own line-art resolution tests this week. Can you possibly make the graphics larger than 200x200 in your project? That, of course, is your most limiting factor. Sorry I did not catch onto that sooner.

Hi,

I tried different resolutions including the the actual size of the round objects which is 283 x 283 px and it doesn't seems to make any noticeable difference!

Unfortunately I cannot make the round objects bigger than 283 x 283 px. I made the same animation in HitFilm Pro 12 and I got slightly sharper images than those of Vegas Pro. It seems it can not get any better than that and I have to live with it!

Last changed by aboammar on 4/16/2019, 6:34 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Marco. wrote on 4/16/2019, 7:09 AM

You scaled the objects to 283 x 283 in CorelDRAW and did not apply any scaling in Vegas Pro but still lose sharpness when outputting PNG?

 

aboammar wrote on 4/16/2019, 11:20 AM

You scaled the objects to 283 x 283 in CorelDRAW and did not apply any scaling in Vegas Pro but still lose sharpness when outputting PNG?

 

Yes .. that is correct.

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Marco. wrote on 4/16/2019, 11:44 AM

This is very strange. Any chance to share this new project once again (including at least one of these 283 x 283 circles)?

aboammar wrote on 4/16/2019, 12:42 PM

This is very strange. Any chance to share this new project once again (including at least one of these )?

Sure .. You may download the Vegas Project file and images used from the following link:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/1d34v3prgd3atws/Cahrt_Animation.zip/file

I am not sure if I still have the 283 x 283 circles but will look fo them.

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Marco. wrote on 4/16/2019, 12:52 PM

Thanks, but this isn't what I meant. This is the same project as before where the big circles are being extremly downscaled in Vegas Pro. But it would need your new project where you did not scale the small 283 circles in Vegas Pro.

Marco. wrote on 4/16/2019, 1:55 PM

I tested this again on my own, made a similar circle (260 x 260) and text with a small font (Andre SF with only 9 pt) in Affinity Publisher, exported as PNG, imported into a Vegas Pro HD project and used it without scaling. Exported to an HD PNG image sequence.

The bigger frame with the four circles on colored background is the Vegas Pro image sequence output and the centered circle on black background is the source file generated in Affinity Publisher.