Interlace lines appearing in video

Musicvid wrote on 5/31/2018, 10:51 PM

Yes, it is interlaced, but we won't know where it occurred until we see complete file properties for both source and render.

It's an easy fix either way, but "pretty sure" doesn't give us the needed information.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

EricLNZ wrote on 5/31/2018, 11:16 PM

Also info on Project Properties in case you have deinterlace method set to "None".

MemoriesFX wrote on 5/31/2018, 11:17 PM

Here is the file info

General
Complete name : F:\Videos\Pro projects\Memoriesfx\Glass Experts\2018-02-27\Shogun\SHOGUN_S001_S001_T002.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 4.40 GiB
Duration : 4 min 30 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 140 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2018-02-27 14:09:34
Tagged date : UTC 2018-02-27 14:09:34
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

Video
ID : 2
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422
Codec ID : apcn
Duration : 4 min 30 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 138 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.215
Stream size : 4.33 GiB (98%)
Writing library : atms
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2018-02-27 14:09:34
Tagged date : UTC 2018-02-27 14:09:34
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : in24
Duration : 4 min 30 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 2 304 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 37.1 MiB (1%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2018-02-27 14:09:34
Tagged date : UTC 2018-02-27 14:09:34

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 4 min 30 s
Time code of first frame : 19:21:14:06
Time code, striped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2018-02-27 14:09:34
Tagged date : UTC 2018-02-27 14:09:34

File properties from Vegas

General
Name: SHOGUN_S001_S001_T002.MOV
Folder: F:\Videos\Pro projects\Memoriesfx\Glass Experts\2018-02-27\Shogun
Type: MAGIX ProRes
Size: 4.61 GB (4,725,582,848 bytes)
Created: Wednesday, February 28, 2018, 6:07:54 PM
Modified: Tuesday, February 27, 2018, 3:14:04 PM
Accessed: Wednesday, February 28, 2018, 6:07:54 PM
Attributes: Archive

Streams
Video: 00:04:30.137, 29.970 fps progressive, 1920x1080x32, ProRes
Audio: 00:04:30.137, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, PCM

ACID information
ACID chunk: no
Stretch chunk: no
Stretch list: no
Stretch info2: no
Beat markers: no
Detected beats: no

Other metadata
Regions/markers: no
Command markers: no

Media manager
Media tags: no

Plug-In
Name: mxhevcplug.dll
Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 15.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\mxhevcplug
Format: MAGIX ProRes
Version: Version 1.0 (Build 8532)
Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

EricLNZ wrote on 5/31/2018, 11:25 PM

Your file is saying it's progressive but it sure doesn't look like it in your Vimeo clip.

EricLNZ wrote on 5/31/2018, 11:29 PM

Pending some better advice from Musicvid I'd try altering the source files media properties to bottom field first instead of progressive, and Project Properties deinterlacing to interpolate fields. Then render out a few secs to see if it makes any difference.

BruceUSA wrote on 5/31/2018, 11:43 PM

Your project properties should be looking like this with your progressive footage.

MemoriesFX wrote on 6/1/2018, 8:03 AM

Your project properties should be looking like this with your progressive footage.

I have tried this and still getting the lines. What seems to work best now is setting the project properties to Smart Adaptive de-interlace mode and rendering to upper field first. I haven't had this issue in years since I switch all recording to progressive

Former user wrote on 6/1/2018, 8:35 AM

In reading the Atomos manual, it states that some cameras will only put out Intlerlaced over HDMI. There is a setting in the Atomos to add pulldown and deinterlace in addition to recording in progressive. Have you checked the output of the cameras to determine their field status as well as the settings I am referring to.

MemoriesFX wrote on 6/1/2018, 8:59 AM

In reading the Atomos manual, it states that some cameras will only put out Intlerlaced over HDMI. There is a setting in the Atomos to add pulldown and deinterlace in addition to recording in progressive. Have you checked the output of the cameras to determine their field status as well as the settings I am referring to.

I am using SDI out from the camera to the Atomos and hooked up the Atomos to the camera again to check and it shows progressive.

MemoriesFX wrote on 6/1/2018, 9:00 AM

Here is another file from the same shoot. I seemed to have gotten rid of the lines for the presenter, but notice the opening title frames and see lines running through the bottom portion where it says Glass Experts https://vimeo.com/272952393

Musicvid wrote on 6/1/2018, 9:54 AM

Try Eric's suggestion. Source Media Properties are not your Project Properties. Try all three.

Source media properties are in the Project Media bin, and you need to right-click to access them. You also need to Match Media Properties in you Project Properties every time; again this is a specific procedure!

As per previous advice, render Best, Interpolate.

Former user wrote on 6/1/2018, 9:56 AM

Vegas is bad for getting MOV files correct, so if this is a ProRes file, Musicvid's suggestion to check Media Properties as interpreted by Vegas is very important.

OldSmoke wrote on 6/1/2018, 9:58 AM

Would you mind sharing what kind of camera you used with the Atomos? The camera may not output true progressive but progressive scan.

EricLNZ wrote on 6/1/2018, 7:34 PM

Vegas is bad for getting MOV files correct, so if this is a ProRes file, Musicvid's suggestion to check Media Properties as interpreted by Vegas is very important.

Does Vegas actually interpret or does it just take what it's told in a file's header?

Former user wrote on 6/1/2018, 9:53 PM

EricLNZ, I don't know but I know it almost always gets MOV files wrong on my computer. Now something else I discovered. Sometimes in the media pool it will say that they Field Order is UNKNOWN and if you click on Media properties it shows PROGRESSIVE. But if I select the dropdown and select Progressive (even though it is there) the file will update its Thumbnail in the Media pool. I don't know if anything has actually been affected but I have started doing this anytime Vegas lists the field order as unknown.

EricLNZ wrote on 6/1/2018, 10:34 PM

Thanks David, very interesting. I asked because I once came across a vob file (not produced by Vegas) that stated it was progressive when in fact, as usual with VOB, it was interlaced. No problems playing it on a DVD player, which appear to treat all files as interlaced, but on a Blu-ray player the combing was terrible. Seeing it was told it was progressive the player didn't deinterlace before upscaling!

Also my Canon AVCHD camera records 25p as 50i. But the frames aren't 50i they are 25p.

Musicvid wrote on 6/1/2018, 11:20 PM

VOB is a special case. Movie Dvds are most often authored native 24p film and flagged 29.97i. Players are supposed to get it right through hardware telecine, but the non-jumpy 24p can still be reclaimed in Handbrake, for instance.

OldSmoke wrote on 6/1/2018, 11:21 PM

Also my Canon AVCHD camera records 25p as 50i. But the frames aren't 50i they are 25p.

That is what I meant with progressive scan. In the 50i recording, the upper and lower field are not shifted in time by 1/25th of a second. A progressive, single frame gets split in an upper and lower lines frame. I came across it only once and found it to be impossible to make an actual progressive format from it; maybe some of the gurus here know how to do that?

EricLNZ wrote on 6/1/2018, 11:39 PM

VOB is a special case. Movie Dvds are most often authored native 24p film and flagged 29.97i. Players are supposed to get it right through hardware telecine, but the non-jumpy 24p can still be reclaimed in Handbrake, for instance.

This was a PAL 50i vob file from a home burnt disc produced by a popular video editor I won't mention.

EricLNZ wrote on 6/1/2018, 11:45 PM

That is what I meant with progressive scan. In the 50i recording, the upper and lower field are not shifted in time by 1/25th of a second. A progressive, single frame gets split in an upper and lower lines frame. I came across it only once and found it to be impossible to make an actual I normally shoot 50i as I don't like the progressive format from it; maybe some of the gurus here know hot to do that?

I normally shoot 50i as I don't like the jerkiness (that I see, some don't) of 25p. But on the rare occasion I shoot 25p with my Canon I just change the field order to none (progressive) in the files media properties so it gets treated as progressive.

OldSmoke wrote on 6/2/2018, 12:25 AM

Here is more about what I mentioned earlier; it’s called “Progressive Segmented Frame”

MemoriesFX wrote on 6/2/2018, 8:09 AM

Would you mind sharing what kind of camera you used with the Atomos? The camera may not output true progressive but progressive scan.

Panasonic AF100

OldSmoke wrote on 6/2/2018, 8:24 AM

Would you mind sharing what kind of camera you used with the Atomos? The camera may not output true progressive but progressive scan.

Panasonic AF100

As you can see in the manual, the camera does only 24p native, 25p and 30p are over 50i and 60i respectively. You would have to record that as interlaced in to Atomos and then de-interlace in Vegas to full progressive.

Musicvid wrote on 6/2/2018, 1:15 PM

For PAL DVD, movie post houses often just author native 24p and flag 25i, ignoring the 4 cents speed/pitch shift. So if you extract correct 24p, it will actually play a tiny bit slower than your DVD disc.