Intermediate Codec Bad Quality/Calculated Wrong Final Render Size?

LongIslander wrote on 8/21/2020, 11:50 AM

I noticed Magix reports the wrong final render size. It would be nice to add a proper fix for this.

Comments

j-v wrote on 8/21/2020, 12:05 PM

Which program and what is wrong?

Can you show us?

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
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Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 580.97 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 26.20.100.7985
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LongIslander wrote on 8/21/2020, 12:44 PM

Sorry should of been more clear. When rendering using the Magix Intermediate Codec the reported render size is incorrect. My final render was 8GB. Its showing an incorrect value that it should be 240GB.

 

michael-harrison wrote on 8/21/2020, 12:48 PM

I would never believe predictions like that. The algorithm has absolutely no idea what visuals you'll be throwing at it and at best it'll be some median value.

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolution        3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

 

LongIslander wrote on 8/21/2020, 12:50 PM

Intermediate Codecs are a fixed CBR bitrate. If anything is should be the easiest codec to calculate. 422 Proxy turns out to be 4GB per minute. It would just be nice if the program did the math for you. Easy fix.

 

I just did a screen-grab of 422 Proxy Render vs a Mainconcept Render at 240MBPS. Interestingly enough. The main-concept retained a higher sharpness and overall quality. The .png is larger as well which indicates more data.

 

422 proxy

 

Mainconcept AVC

 

j-v wrote on 8/21/2020, 1:08 PM

So, your OP is not right, it 's not a report of the "rendersize" but a ( calculated???) prediction.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 580.97 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 26.20.100.7985
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

LongIslander wrote on 8/21/2020, 1:58 PM

OK but you get what I’m saying right? 😂. regardless it seems that I’m not going to be using the intermediate codec anyways since main concept beats it in render quality which is mindboggling.

LongIslander wrote on 8/21/2020, 8:40 PM

@Musicvid could you explain how a mainconcept AVC render at 240MBPS would beat out a 540MBPS MAGIX Intermediate codec file in terms of render quality? I’m willing to upload sample footage if need be. 🧐

Musicvid wrote on 8/21/2020, 9:26 PM

I'm just not seeing it in your uploaded grabs. But to run your own quantitative tests, you would compare each rendered file to the original, not to each other,

RogerS wrote on 8/21/2020, 9:40 PM

I reported this a while ago. H.264 was fine but estimated size for intermediate was by a factor of 10 for some reason.

LongIslander wrote on 8/22/2020, 11:48 AM

Here are the original screen grabs. I also zoomed in 100% so you can see the detail of the grass and trees in the distance are identical to the original file in the avc render but the proxy render just kind of blurs everything out.

And here is the original footage if anyone wants to replicate my results.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ko6orxohm1glsgb/DJI_0001.MP4?dl=0

I mean; an intermediate codec should bot be beat by a "compressed" codec of half the bitrate.

 

Original screen-grab from dji footage.

422 Proxy Magix Intermediate Codec

Mainconcept AVC Render at 240MBPS

 

Musicvid wrote on 8/22/2020, 12:30 PM

Put your raw footage on a top track. Put your two renders on lower tracks. Now apply the Difference composite effect to the top track. Lower you Output End levels until you clearly see the noise print in the preview.

Now, use the track Mute button to switch between the lower tracks for comparison to the original. Like this:

As far as judging visual differences from reprocessed grabs, I'm afraid it is a nonstarter for these 71 y/o eyes. I see a little less contrast with the Intermediate, and a little more apparent edge sharpness with Mainconcept, but at 240 Mbps, I would expect no earthshaking differences. I would still choose Intermediate / ProRes. I do know that they use very different forms of motion estimation, in case this scene was panned at all.

peter-d wrote on 8/22/2020, 12:53 PM

I am viewing on tiny laptop with Office Picture Manager.
The Magix seems to have slightly darker blacks.
Very scientific :)