So, out of 1,000 brides-to-be of heterogeneous skin tones, how many will say their normalized skin tone is perfect in a photograph and how many will not? heh

To me, it's like putting. If I didn't have a reference other than visual memory, I would employ a number of mental guesses to get the ball within a five foot circle on the first putt, not in the center of the hole, which is only favorable collateral if it works.

Referencing to neutral areas at high and low luminosity, the reflective colors of clothing and drapes, the UV characteristics of the lighting itself, good 'ol Patch 1 and 2 on my ColorChecker (which says Macbeth), and factoring out my own visual variables as much as possible, while factoring in the bride's visual variables as much as possible, all contribute to the ball dropping in the hole, whether a one-putt or a prayerful two-putt.

So yes, lots and lots of variables. As long as the eyes are part of the equation, it all remains fuzzy science at best. To a producing photographer, experience is relative to the number of clients lost. The color of skin is a temporal target. In the presence of a normal daylight low-UV lighting curve, the flesh line alone will get you close.

You guys make a tough house to play to. Hold the brown bottles, please.

I've thought a lot about the responses that everyone has provided. I want to be completely honest about something and something that I didn't really realize. Due to the lack of multiculturalism in my area, most of the people I film are Caucasian and African American, so I don't experience as many variances that many of you are.

With that said and the points brought up, my conclusion is that there isn't a definitive value for ALL skin tone. There are variances, some are greater and some are minimal. It would be nice to be able to record 100 or even 1000 people of each race in the same exact environment with the same camera and get an average reading of their skin to use as a general baseline. If I had access to that kind of mixed population here, I would do it.

Anyways, I would still like to have a reference of some kind like I mentioned in my original post to quickly see the reading on the scope vs hovering it. IF we were able to have the sample data in the previous paragraph, then an option could be selected in the scopes for the race we're color grading and use that as a general baseline... In the end, I DO further tweak to what I see on my calibrated monitor. Sometimes a technical value doesn't always look best for a scene.

Thank you all for opening my eyes to something I've thought to have known differently for a long time.

@j.cloninger Do an internet search for the race with the darkest skin and you will be surprised how dark skinned humans can be.

@j.cloninger Do an internet search for the race with the darkest skin and you will be surprised how dark skinned humans can be.

I know how dark skin can get. I mentioned that I had a Caucasian and African American on the same timeline and both varied only by a couple of degrees, but the saturation amount was lower on the AA (naturally).

Though this would start becoming bit offtopic, Pantone has some interesting skin tone projects published.

I've thought a lot about the responses that everyone has provided. I want to be completely honest about something and something that I didn't really realize. Due to the lack of multiculturalism in my area, most of the people I film are Caucasian and African American, so I don't experience as many variances that many of you are.

With that said and the points brought up, my conclusion is that there isn't a definitive value for ALL skin tone. There are variances, some are greater and some are minimal. It would be nice to be able to record 100 or even 1000 people of each race in the same exact environment with the same camera and get an average reading of their skin to use as a general baseline. If I had access to that kind of mixed population here, I would do it.

Anyways, I would still like to have a reference of some kind like I mentioned in my original post to quickly see the reading on the scope vs hovering it. IF we were able to have the sample data in the previous paragraph, then an option could be selected in the scopes for the race we're color grading and use that as a general baseline... In the end, I DO further tweak to what I see on my calibrated monitor. Sometimes a technical value doesn't always look best for a scene.

Thank you all for opening my eyes to something I've thought to have known differently for a long time.

+1

I was raised in white rural Nebraska. Here is a picture of me at age 5 sitting with the first African American I ever met. My fascination was unmistakable.

@Marco. Pantone for print graphics is unbeatable!

It is pretty hard to disagree with Larry Jordon on anything.

I must say that there is a lot of wisdom reflected in this line:

"The relative flesh tone creates the chroma vector, not the other way around."

And I suppose that pretty much sums it all up.

I use the Vectorscope of ColorFast2 as project FX to check the skin tones. This vectorscope has a fleshtone line. Normal skin tones are to the right of this line. For me it is also important that the analyzed area can be cropped.

It would be nice if there were these possibilities directly in Vegas. The fleshtone line provides a good orientation for skin tones, especially in green magenta tuning.

I'd love to see an 'X-rite colour checker match tool' alike the one used in Resolve. with an 'automatch' button and a '%' slider...haaa dreaming on for VP18..;-_

Can I just say that on this thread that the thorough engagement of all those involved in inputting their time and downright spectacular knowledge is truly enlightening. Really, a big KUDOS AWARD to you all.

Isn't this what the Graide Color Match plug-in from SeMW Software does in Vegas Pro?

In the screenshot on the OP, what's the other reference line, roughly perpendicular to the skin tone line?

The sometimes called "flesh tone line" is the I line from the YIQ color model. This was / is? used by the NTSC color TV system. The YIQ color model is rotated 33 degrees to the YUV.  The Q line lays perpendicular to the I line. While the I line can be used well for color correction, I do not see any use for the Q line.