MVS adn WebEX: Resolution, codecs, and conversions

Philip wrote on 3/9/2018, 6:37 PM

Apparently I mis-posted this before, as I can’t find it in the forum. I apologize in advance if this is too far afield, but I need to start somewhere. I am hoping someone here may have experience that can help.

Where I work, webinars are given in WebEx, which can also record them. I just gave and recorded a series of half-hour classes on using various MS Word tools. In order for our company to post them on our training site, the training director needs an .mp4, to which she adds a branded header. WebEx allows me to download in its proprietary .arf file and convert to .mp4 in its player/editor.

My first class required editing beyond WebEx's very basic editor, so I brought home the mp4 and edited in MVS12 Plat  (I have 15 now, but have not had time to investigate it). It looked fairly good in the editor, but when I rendered in Internet 480p, the resolution was dismal, even at half-size on my 22-inch monitor. I ended up rendering in Internet 720p, which was acceptable, but the file size may be too large for the sit. The second two classes, unedited by me, had headers added to the mp4s I sent, by the training director, using Camtasia, and even with a moderate, fixed-size window, the resolution was not really good enough to see clearly the dialogue box and other screen details in my demo. I don’t yet have specs for what she rendered in.

I foresee a call to WebEx to try to find out what specs they can offer. Anyone here who is familiar with screen recording, or who can suggest to me what parameters I should be looking at? I know just enough to know, second hand, that between containers and codecs and conversions, life can get very complicated fast. Any guidance on bitrate, rendering codec from the list (either MVS 12's or 15's), audio compression for simple voice narrative, etc., to keep file size in check while maintaining adequate quality for my screen capture to be used for corporate training purposes? I doubt that Camtasia is ready for HEVC, but I need to consider where we can improve (and whom I'll need to persuade…).

Thanks.

Comments

NickHope wrote on 3/9/2018, 10:41 PM

You posted before here, and had a reply from Marco a couple of comments below that. I'll move this to the Movie Studio forum, as that is the program you have.

 

Musicvid wrote on 3/10/2018, 6:49 AM

Also, post MediaInfo for your source mp4

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

Philip wrote on 3/10/2018, 9:17 AM

Thank you for the Mediainfo link. This sounds foolish, but I installed Mediainfo universal GUI and see it listed in Windows Explorer, with a Plugin subfolder and 4 subfolders in that, but it's not showing in my Programs list. How do I open it?

ggrussell wrote on 3/10/2018, 9:39 AM

Media Info works as a Windows File Explorer plug in. Open File Explorer / browse to the MP4 / Right click on it and there should be choice for Media info. Select that and it will run.

Philip wrote on 3/10/2018, 3:46 PM

Thanks for your reply, ggrussell. Unfortunately, it is not showing up with any of my mp4 files. I tried reinstalling, it said it was finished, but all appears the same as before.

I do not look for add-ins, plugins, extensions, etc. to my programs; maybe once a year. I keep the machine fairly simple and things usually work as expected. I don't know what else I might try. I did try the Windows x64 Mediainfo before the universal, but that wouldn't install at all; after extracting all from the zip, starting the exe file made something appear and disappear in less than a half-second. No sign of it I could find.

Any ideas?

john_dennis wrote on 3/10/2018, 4:41 PM

From my Webex contact:

"Hi John,

My WebEx sites will no longer default to (or give an option to choose) .ARF format and it will not let me change it.  They all record in MP4.  But here is the information:"

Here is a Cisco/Webex whitepaper describing more than you ever wanted to know about how they make the sausage.

My guess is that the recording of your conference was not more than 1280x720 at ~550 kbps no matter what wrapper it was stored into, arf, mp4 etc. Keep working on getting Mediainfo to work and see if it will expose the parameters of the .arf files. If their tool re-encoded the .arf file in order to convert it to .mp4 you have experienced one generation loss already.

Philip wrote on 3/11/2018, 9:19 AM

I got Mediainfo working; rather, it deigned to show up 12 hours and a reboot later.

As far as I know, I have no direct access to arf files, and don’t have permission to install media info at work anyway. WebEx provides conversion to mp4 or wmv. In prepping these notes this morning, I discovered something that may have contributed to the sharpness problem: In MVS 12, the unedited mp4 I brought home shows up as HD 1080-60i (1920x1080, 29.970 fps). Could it be the interlaced format that was already set in MVS, and I should have changed to some progressive format before editing?

      As you'll see below, the unedited mp4 is around 8MB, while the edited (perhaps a dozen cuts and two small text inserts, no effects, etc.) and rendered 720p mp4 ballooned to 271MB.

      I am truly grateful for your help.

     Here's the unedited mp4, converted from the arf,  info:

General

Complete name                            : C:\Users\Parenti\Documents\Philip\QAT video\QAT class.mp4

Format                                   : MPEG-4

Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2

Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/isom)

File size                                : 7.77 MiB

Duration                                 : 24 min 13 s

Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

Overall bit rate                         : 44.8 kb/s

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-15 14:30:41

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-15 14:54:59

Writing application                      : FAAC 1.28

 

Video

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : Baseline@L4

Format settings                          : 9 Ref Frames

Format settings, CABAC                   : No

Format settings, RefFrames               : 9 frames

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 24 min 13 s

Bit rate                                 : 27.4 kb/s

Width                                    : 1 024 pixels

Height                                   : 768 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3

Frame rate mode                          : Constant

Frame rate                               : 8.000 FPS

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.004

Stream size                              : 4.75 MiB (61%)

Language                                 : English

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-15 14:54:59

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-15 14:54:59

 

Audio

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AAC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile                           : LC

Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2

Duration                                 : 24 min 13 s

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 16.8 kb/s

Maximum bit rate                         : 20.2 kb/s

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Channel(s)_Original                      : 1 channel

Channel positions                        : Front: C

Sampling rate                            : 8 000 Hz

Frame rate                               : 7.813 FPS (1024 SPF)

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Stream size                              : 2.92 MiB (38%)

Language                                 : English

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-15 14:30:41

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-15 14:54:59

-------

Here's the 720p info:

General

Complete name                            : C:\Users\Parenti\Documents\Philip\QAT video\QAT class. 720mp4.mp4

Format                                   : MPEG-4

Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2

Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/isom)

File size                                : 271 MiB

Duration                                 : 23 min 3 s

Overall bit rate                         : 1 643 kb/s

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-22 14:43:28

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-22 14:43:28

 

Video

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : Main@L3.2

Format settings                          : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames

Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes

Format settings, RefFrames               : 5 frames

Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=24

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 23 min 3 s

Source duration                          : 23 min 3 s

Bit rate                                 : 1 510 kb/s

Width                                    : 1 280 pixels

Height                                   : 720 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate mode                          : Constant

Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS

Standard                                 : NTSC

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.055

Stream size                              : 249 MiB (92%)

Source stream size                       : 249 MiB (92%)

Language                                 : English

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-22 14:43:28

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-22 14:43:28

Color range                              : Limited

 

Audio

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AAC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile                           : LC

Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2

Duration                                 : 23 min 3 s

Bit rate mode                            : Constant

Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s

Channel(s)                               :  channel0

Channel(s)_Original                      : 2 channels

Channel positions                        : Front: L R

Sampling rate                            : 44.1 kHz

Frame rate                               : 43.066 FPS (1024 SPF)

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Stream size                              : 21.1 MiB (8%)

Language                                 : English

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-22 14:43:28

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-22 14:43:28

 

 

ggrussell wrote on 3/11/2018, 10:15 AM

Your unedited file is 4:3 at only 8FPS (constant frame). That is why is is so small.

john_dennis wrote on 3/11/2018, 12:26 PM

I haven't used VMS but, if possible, you should set your Project Properties to match you input file.

Pixel Dimensions=1024x768

Frame Rate=8 Frames per Second

Progressive, Not Interlaced

Then customize the render template with the same parameters. There is no point in upscaling the current dimensions.

Musicvid wrote on 3/11/2018, 1:18 PM

Source bitrate is woefully lacking if MediaInfo is reporting correctly. Even recorded at 30 fps yours would be around 100 Kbps.

A ballpark figure for 720p 30 video with motion would be around 8000 Kbps ( or 8 Mbps). At 8 fps, you could project 2000 Kbps (2 Mbps).

Philip wrote on 3/11/2018, 5:20 PM

I'll check the WebEx white paper, and call them if needed, to see if that 8 fps is what they do for screen capture; it may be. As I put the pieces together, I be back. Perhaps my experience will benefit others, though I imagine most folks who edit in Vegas have their own screen capture software and don't need to deal with such issues. Thanks again.

Last changed by Philip on 3/11/2018, 5:21 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Philip U.

Sine scientia, ars nihil est. (Without science/knowledge, art is nothing.)
MSP 16, Dell XPS, i7 9th, 512 NVMe SSD, HDD storage

Philip wrote on 3/16/2018, 8:27 AM

I have made some progress on my own, thanks to all. Using some of the Mediainfo info, I figured out how to customize a template to match the frame rate (8) and resolution (1024x768) of the source file. After trying various bit rates, I made a file at 384k variable that plays with almost acceptable resolution, i.e., on my 1920x1080 monitor, it's a bit small to see taskbar-like icons in Word, and when played full screen, the drop in resolution and apparent contrast in fine lines (type in menus) creates its own problems. Whether there is more I can do, I don't yet know. Still waiting to hear back from WebEx. Open to any suggestions.

john_dennis wrote on 3/16/2018, 2:23 PM

Since you are the content creator and you deliver the instruction, I would consider installing the free Open Broadcaster Software on your local machine while you deliver the instruction. You could record at your local screen resolution and frame rate. Then, you could edit and deliver without getting WebEx and your network bandwidth limitations involved.