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xcxz-a wrote on 9/24/2020, 12:02 AM

It is a new version dll to read video file and then generate frame and audio in Vegas Pro.

It is new version, so it can read more format files but it also have many bugs, such as the videos and audio are out of sync in Vegas Pro.

Grazie wrote on 9/24/2020, 12:48 AM

@xcxz-a - Many thanks! And what does the abbreviation actually stand for?: S o 4


So we need to careful about sync yeah? And is this meant to replace QT as we go down the road?

NickHope wrote on 9/24/2020, 1:11 AM

It's a decoder ("plug-in") for AVC (H.264) formats, that mostly replaces compoundplug.dll.

But something I read (that I now can't find) makes me think it's not just a self-contained decoder. I think it has the ability to pass streams off to other decoders depending on their specific content.

It doesn't replace QT but it does decode AVC streams within QT .mov containers.

My GUESS is that compoundplug may entail costs (e.g. from MainConcept?) in terms of royalties/on-going licensing and that so4compoundplug.dll avoids these costs because it has been developed in house? This is speculation and might be nonsense. Or it might be that compoundplug was somehow terminally limited, for example in terms of hardware acceleration.

Would love someone from the VEGAS team to confirm or deny that speculation, and also tell us what "so4" stands for, cuz I have no idea either.

xcxz-a wrote on 9/24/2020, 1:14 AM

@xcxz-a - Many thanks! And what does the abbreviation actually stand for?: S o 4

It may just be a funny name, means Sulfate compound,something like FeSO4.


So we need to careful about sync yeah?

If encounter sync problem, we can turn so4 off in inner settings.

 

And is this meant to replace QT as we go down the road?

QT is abandoned but not replaced.

 

personal opinion .

Grazie wrote on 9/24/2020, 2:38 AM

@xcxz-a & @NickHope Thank you! I have more questions, of course:

Q1 : I’ve been using QT Animation to produce ALPHA. What’s the “informed” thinking, going forward?

Q2 : The Audio sync issue, will this be cured? How will I notice an issue?

Q3 : If I were to Transcode, yuck, what do you recommend?

TIA - G

NickHope wrote on 9/24/2020, 2:52 AM

If you have an established, successful workflow using QT Animation then for an easy life you could just enable Quicktime in VEGAS File I/O preferences and carry on. I doubt VEGAS will produce another native decoder that will read that format like they did for Quicktime AVC and ProRes (and HEVC?).

If you want to use a different codec for alpha, I'm afraid I'm not sure which to recommend. I rarely use alpha and can't remember which intermediate-worthy codecs support it in VEGAS.

Personally, I've not experienced audio sync issues with so4compoundplug.

Grazie wrote on 9/24/2020, 3:21 AM

@NickHope - As always, your replies are both full some and easy for me to understand.

RogerS wrote on 9/24/2020, 5:17 AM

Doesn't Magic YUV have an alpha option?

Grazie wrote on 9/24/2020, 5:27 AM

@RogerS - It would appear so. But only, my brain is starting to ache, in a compressed state: https://www.magicyuv.com/

RogerS wrote on 9/24/2020, 5:42 AM

It's compressed but isn't it lossless? If so seems like a valid replacement for old QT-based codecs.

Marco. wrote on 9/24/2020, 6:06 AM

Yes, MagicYUV is always compressed - and it's lossless. There are two (RGBA and YUVA) MagicYUV codec choices which support alpha channels.

fr0sty wrote on 9/24/2020, 9:36 AM

AVI supports uncompressed with alpha channel.

So4 also enables better GPU acceleration and the ability to decode 10 bit media.

There are fewer and fewer reasons to disable it with each update, and because of the above mentioned aspects, it's best not to.

Systems:

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Musicvid wrote on 9/24/2020, 10:50 AM

Q1 : I’ve been using QT Animation to produce ALPHA. What’s the “informed” thinking, going forward?

I'm not a big fan. I tested QT Animation thoroughly back when I ran these tests in 2011, and panned it quickly as a candidate for true lossless encoders.

  1. The RLE compression is terribly inefficient, except with low/no motion source. With full motion scenes, it is essentially no more efficient than uncompressed.
  2. The encode is full of rounding errors, making the blue ramp vectorscope line "fat," meaning noisy with increased small-scale banding.

As an early attempt at "lossless" compression, it was a good idea in its day, but has been obsoleted by advanced intraframe encoders such as Magic (RGB), UT, and even Huffy. And of course it is no match for interframe encoders, although they usually don't support Alpha.

So in my workflow, it sits on the shelf as a dusty but well-earned trophy. No charge for the editorial.

Grazie wrote on 9/24/2020, 11:03 AM

@Musicvid - Thanks 🙏

DougT wrote on 9/24/2020, 9:35 PM

I like the animation codec, but mostly because I use it for graphic animation, so rounding errors and fat vectorscopes don't show. Usually it is a text graphic or manipulating a logo. So don't write it off completely. The file size is small relatively, but the quality, especially text, holds up very well.

Grazie wrote on 9/24/2020, 9:45 PM

@DougT - Yes, me too. Unless @Musicvid has some concerning input regarding this too, I shall keep using it. No, my initial concerns was to do with the Windows 10 and QT support falling away and what alternatives I could use - easily 😉 .

fr0sty wrote on 9/24/2020, 9:55 PM

I always use AVI uncompressed for my alpha stuff, it gets rid of the QT headache all together.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Musicvid wrote on 9/24/2020, 10:24 PM

@DougT - Yes, me too. Unless @Musicvid has some concerning input regarding this too, I shall keep using it. No, my initial concerns was to do with the Windows 10 and QT support falling away and what alternatives I could use - easily 😉 .


@Grazie @DougT

I got to thinking this morning (a rarity), and decided to rerun my tests that were almost a decade old. Using my generated banding test media, I was only able to see a little of the rounding errors I reported before. Certainly not enough to compromise the output in any significant way. So until I've had a chance to dive deeper, I hope you'll take those earlier observations with a grain of salt.

My personal choices for RGBA intermediates are either Magic or UT AVI, and when encoding camera video, UT 422, which comes in at only 1-2% of uncompressed size. Thanks for cueing me to take a second look.

Grazie wrote on 9/25/2020, 3:23 AM

My personal choices for RGBA intermediates are either Magic

@Musicvid - Erm? Where he be? Looked through my List of Render Options, can't find RGBA . . . ?

 

Grazie wrote on 9/25/2020, 4:41 AM

Just did a Quick 'n Dirty Transparency Test QT > MP4 - HEVC:

Last changed by Grazie on 9/25/2020, 4:46 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Grazie

PC 10 64-bit 64gb * Intel® Core™i9 - 3.3GHz * 8 GB graphics card with 32 GB of shared NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070

Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge

Musicvid wrote on 9/25/2020, 12:55 PM

You can get Alpha in Magic and UT in HOS, or Wayne made a custom aviplug.dll for Vegas. You could ask him if he has one for your VP18.

Marco. wrote on 9/25/2020, 1:09 PM

In VP18 you don't need workarounds to use the alpha channel of AVI files. VP18 supports it natively (if the codec itself supports it).

Grazie wrote on 9/25/2020, 1:17 PM

@Marco. - I don’t understand, sorry.