Project and render settings advice sought

Video_flaneur wrote on 3/12/2022, 12:08 AM

I am about to commence a number of projects which will each intermix 2 different types of video files - 4K @ 25fps and HD @ 50 fps. The rendered files will be uploaded to Vimeo and YouTube and from there embedded on my website. I expect to be using a range of Vegas effects and have the latest build. Would you experienced users out there choose to set project and render settings to:

  1. 4K @ 25fps and maybe smart upscale the HD footage?
  2. HD @ 50 fps?
  3. Neither of the above.

Thankful for any advice.

Laptop: Surface Pro 6: Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8650U CPU @ 1.90GHz   2.11 GHzIntel(R) Core(TM) i7-8650U CPU @ 1.90GHz   2.11 GHz; 16GB RAM, 1TB internal SSD
2 external monitors, 5TB external drive, wireless keyboard and mouse

(planning to upgrade to a more powerful graphics laptop when cashflows allow)

Vegas Pro 22 (Build 250); Vegasaur Toolkit 4.0.1; ProDad Mercall v.4; HitFilm Pro Version 2021.1; Acid Pro 11; Sound Forge Pro 18;

Comments

Yelandkeil wrote on 3/12/2022, 12:36 AM

Don't fancy much, your machine allows you do fullHD project only.

Take the framerate 50fps for smooth motion.

Keep the source material for a hardware revolution in coming days.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
- Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
- ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
- G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
- AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
- XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

Lumix DC-GH6/H-FS12060E: HLG4k60p, AWBw, shutter=100, ISO=auto (250 - 6400)
DJI Mini4 Pro: HLG4k60p, AWB, shutter=auto, ISO=auto, EV-2.0
HERO5: ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear, WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

Win11Pro: 24H2-26100.4202; Direct3D API: 12.2
VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

RogerS wrote on 3/12/2022, 2:14 AM

I would do 4K 25, use the the extra frames for slow motion when needed, and render 1080P25.

Yelandkeil wrote on 3/12/2022, 3:17 AM

Do 4k25p and render 1080p25? 
You confused me @RogerS
My project does editing on timeline and I output its signal which means the render follows my project settings. 
Or should I divide a schizophrenia for me?

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
- Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
- ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
- G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
- AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
- XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

Lumix DC-GH6/H-FS12060E: HLG4k60p, AWBw, shutter=100, ISO=auto (250 - 6400)
DJI Mini4 Pro: HLG4k60p, AWB, shutter=auto, ISO=auto, EV-2.0
HERO5: ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear, WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

Win11Pro: 24H2-26100.4202; Direct3D API: 12.2
VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

RogerS wrote on 3/12/2022, 3:31 AM

Yes, edit at 4K 25p and render at either 4K 25p or 1080 25p.

I think if you crop in on the original video its better to have a project file with the same high resolution as your 4K footage. You can then render at the same or a lower resolution.

50p is for special effects in my opinion as it's smoother than what we are used to with cinema or television. I shoot 1080p 60fps for slow motion on a 24p or 30p timeline.

Rendering follows project settings using a tool like Voukoder but for MagixAVC you have to set it manually.

Yelandkeil wrote on 3/12/2022, 3:41 AM

😁😁

I see your point!

Design a flattop and transfer it to a kayak.

With an i7-3630QM @ 2.4 GHz

😰😰

 

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
- Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
- ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
- G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
- AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
- XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

Lumix DC-GH6/H-FS12060E: HLG4k60p, AWBw, shutter=100, ISO=auto (250 - 6400)
DJI Mini4 Pro: HLG4k60p, AWB, shutter=auto, ISO=auto, EV-2.0
HERO5: ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear, WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

Win11Pro: 24H2-26100.4202; Direct3D API: 12.2
VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

RogerS wrote on 3/12/2022, 3:53 AM

I edited 4K projects with an even worse processor than that but had to make proxy files for all the 4K footage. It worked but I'm glad I upgraded computers to be able to edit 4K easily.

Dexcon wrote on 3/12/2022, 4:13 AM

4K @ 25fps and maybe smart upscale the HD footage?

Being an AI FX, does Vegas' Smart Upscale FX actually work properly with an i7-3000 series CPU? None of Vegas' AI FX worked when I was using an i7-4770 CPU powered computer.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 20, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz

3POINT wrote on 3/12/2022, 5:14 AM

Upscaling FHD to 4k is to my opinion a waste of time. Depending on the ratio of 2160p25 and 1080p50 footage and seen the hardware I would rather go for a 1080p50 project/render setting and try resampling 2160p25 to 1080p50 with the new optical flow project resample setting of VP19. (better results are got with the tool https://nmkd.itch.io/flowframes , which I use frequently to get smoother motion of p25 recordings). Downscaling 4k to FHD gives excellent results.

To me smoother motion is more important than the amount of pixels.

Video_flaneur wrote on 3/12/2022, 5:46 AM

Thank you all for your replies. Yes, I know my hardware is now old and low powered but it will soon (hopefully) be replaced when finances allow, so I would be interested in what your advice would be if I had a more powerful machine. In my case, numbers of pixels may be more important than smooth motion as I have a number of very high resolution graphics and maps that I would be using along with the video. Your advice has all been most helpful.

Laptop: Surface Pro 6: Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8650U CPU @ 1.90GHz   2.11 GHzIntel(R) Core(TM) i7-8650U CPU @ 1.90GHz   2.11 GHz; 16GB RAM, 1TB internal SSD
2 external monitors, 5TB external drive, wireless keyboard and mouse

(planning to upgrade to a more powerful graphics laptop when cashflows allow)

Vegas Pro 22 (Build 250); Vegasaur Toolkit 4.0.1; ProDad Mercall v.4; HitFilm Pro Version 2021.1; Acid Pro 11; Sound Forge Pro 18;

Musicvid wrote on 3/12/2022, 6:03 AM

Using the rule of lowest common factors, the most compatible and least destructive output is 1080 p25.

3POINT wrote on 3/12/2022, 6:32 AM

Or using the rule of highest common factors which would be 2160p50.

You have to experiment if the effort is worthwhile the outcome. Personally I don't see a quality difference on my 65" UHDTV between 4k and a down scale to FHD at normal viewing distance. But I see a difference at every distance between smooth motion and none smooth motion.

Dexcon wrote on 3/12/2022, 6:46 AM

I know my hardware is now old and low powered but it will soon (hopefully) be replaced

A great idea. I know its an undesired thing to do (Nnnnooooo - I don't want spend the money!!!!), but eventually it does need to happen as technology moves on and we therefore need to upgrade (unless we stop at a point in time and never upgrade from then on). Many comments on the forum in recent months has been that GPUs are super, super expensive - so it might be a good idea to consider a 'package' purchase - i.e. something from a large computer manufacturer like Dell. HP, etc who tend to get better component deals. Whether those components are agreeable to you is another question.

Please keep in mind the minimum recommended specs for Vegas Pro 19 - https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/specifications/#productMenu

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 20, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz