4K (3840x2160 50P) files from panasonic hc x1500e ********.mov are listed as 10bit both in camcorder manual and mediainfo
mediainfo
chroma subsampling 4:2:0
bit depth 10bits
If I add a clip into the bin and select match project to file a standard 8 bit project is set up.
Q. Am I actually working offering a '10bit' file to Vegas and should Pixel format be set 32bit floating or standard 8 bit.
Many thanks. G
What will your output be? 10 or 8 bit?
If you're in an 8 bit project your video will be processed in 8 bit. You always need to set your project to floating point manually.
@musicvid. Almost certainly 8 bit for near future. However, for editing there is no harm in taking advantage in using 10 bit?
Initially I set up project as 10 bit to see how my pc coped. I then set up a new project with wrong setting and let vagas match project to clip. Just exploring the new camera. There is an option for 4.2.2
Having used a hacked GH2 fully manual (1280 x 720P)for the last few years a camcorder is a new learning experience with many options.
G
If your output is 8 bit, leave your Project at 8 bit. Otherwise you get longer render times, gamma errors, and unwanted shadow noise, a result of quantization.
@Musicvid. I'll take your advice. Thanks for taking time.
If you can throw a bit of your source up on Drive or Dropbox, I love to test this stuff.
As Musicvid points out, if your output is intended for 8 bit, stick with 8 bit, but if you ever choose to dabble in HDR, you can take advantage of 10 bit's extra color (assuming your camera also records at color spaces greater than rec709, such as log (vlog) or HLG). Even if your cam is limited to Rec709 color, you can still take advantage of the additional luminance afforded by using 10 bit within that color space, but HDR is the only format you can use for 10 bit if you want to render it out in a deliverable format. Otherwise you're stuck with intermediate formats like XAVC-I, Magix-I (I think they upgraded it to 10 bit in V17, didn't they?), or any of the other 10 bit intermediates VEGAS supports.
Just tried the dropbox app & watched many files vanish from pc to a cloud somewhere. Think I have now gained control. DB emptied and pc restored to yesterday.
Camcorder hand held on fully automatic. Not explored manual yet.
Try this link. The origonal file was simply renamed.#http://Croome200717 (23).MOV
or https://www.dropbox.com/s/um74stucki97qkd/Croome200717%20%20%2823%29.MOV?dl=0
New to dropbox and I'm giving years away to Musicvid
You don't need to use the dropbox app if you don't plan to sync your folders to have them available when you're traveling or use the site as an archive. Most everyday functions can be done on dropbox.com using the All Files folder structure and right-click menus.
Mediainfo
General
CompleteName : C:\Users\John\Downloads\Croome200717 (23).MOV
Format/String : MPEG-4
Format_Profile : QuickTime
CodecID/String : qt 2011.07 (qt /pana)
FileSize/String : 234 MiB
Duration/String : 10 s 80 ms
OverallBitRate/String : 194 Mb/s
ID/String : 1
Format/String : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format_Profile : Main 10@L5.2@High
CodecID : hvc1
CodecID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration/String : 10 s 80 ms
BitRate/String : 192 Mb/s
Width/String : 3 840 pixels
Height/String : 2 160 pixels
DisplayAspectRatio/String : 16:9
FrameRate_Mode/String : Constant
FrameRate/String : 50.000 FPS
ColorSpace : YUV
ChromaSubsampling/String : 4:2:0
BitDepth/String : 10 bits
Bits-(Pixel*Frame) : 0.463
StreamSize/String : 231 MiB (99%)
Language/String : English
colour_range : Limited
colour_primaries : BT.709
transfer_characteristics : BT.709
matrix_coefficients : BT.709
Codec configuration box : hvcC
Audio
ID/String : 2
Format/String : PCM
Format_Settings : Big / Signed
CodecID : lpcm
Duration/String : 10 s 80 ms
BitRate_Mode/String : Constant
BitRate/String : 2 304 kb/s
Channel(s)/String : 2 channels
ChannelLayout : L R
SamplingRate/String : 48.0 kHz
BitDepth/String : 24 bits
StreamSize/String : 2.77 MiB (1%)
Language/String : English
Other
ID/String : 3
Type : Time code
Format/String : QuickTime TC
Duration/String : 10 s 80 ms
BitRate_Mode/String : Constant
FrameRate/String : 50.000 FPS
TimeCode_FirstFrame : 00:26:53:19
TimeCode_Striped/String : Yes
Title : A003
Language/String : English
I was just unfortunate in that the 'dropbox app' arrived in my inbox this morning. Looking at the second link it is dropbox.com as per your recommendation. Maybe to much self isolation is kicking in.
If more sample files with different recording formats are required from the HC-X1500 I'll gladly provide.
Other cameras in use are 8 bit HD, FHD or Gopro so an 8 bit timeline should suffice.
This is great. My previous tests from 32 bit project to 8 bit render, which revealed the Quantization (shadow) noise, were from 422 source. Now we can check to see if it is the same with 10 bit 420 source. From my limited knowledge of float - to - integer processing, I suspect similar results starting with your format.
The results of testing an 8 bit render from both 32 bit and 8 bit projects were interesting, ... in that there were no significant differences in shadow noise levels. In other words, with your 10 bit 420 source, you could use either type of project.
I didn't compare the render times with each, but you could do that easily.
I also used a shadow mask to reduce the indigent shadow noise from the 10-8 bit downsample, and here is that result. Just raise the Input Start levels by 0.095 in addition to whatever grading / output levels adjustment you may use.
Thanks. Please excuse my ignorance but what is a 'shadow mask'. I can see that raising the start level pulls the 'blacks' down toward 16 but I am then losing 'white'. Could you enlighten me further?. Sorry about going a bit OT.
It just clips out quantization noise that results from the transform from 10-to-8 bit space. Input Start doesn't do anything to your whites. Once I calculate the masking level using the Difference composite, the adjustment is nondestructive. You can see that it's all noise, not signal. And thanks for your source sample! I am still learning.
More tests and examples (using 422 source) here.
Always pleased to learn from the master. Thanks for your assistance.
Always pleased to learn from the master. Thanks for your assistance.
mas·ter /ˈmastər/ noun : 1. One who always skates on thin ice. 2. One who constantly changes his answers to suit the moment. 3. One who covers his stupid mistakes with a sh*t-eating grin.
Looking closer at the 10 vs. 8 bit project noise, the 8 bit project does have the slight edge on noise, but not by much. With 422 source, the difference is more pronounced, which is a clue as to what Vegas might be doing under the hood.
After some digging, it does not appear your camcorder supports color gamuts wider than Rec709, so you won't be able to access the wider color spectrum available there, but it is 10 bit, and records HEVC up to 200mbps, which is a really high bitrate for that codec... so you will still have a lot more accuracy with 10 bits when it comes to coloring your video. However, since you're not able to take advantage of HDR fully, you'd do best to render to 8 bit formats, which means you'd do best to stick to 8 bit projects, as musicvid has pointed out.
For future reference, if buying a panasonic camera that you do want to be able to utilize for HDR once it starts to become more standard, you want to look for compatibility with either VLOG or HLG, the 2 picture profiles Panasonic cameras offer that have a wide enough color gamut for HDR. The GH series cameras above the GH5, the S series of full frame cameras, and many of their camcorder models all support these profiles.