I would use Happy Otter Scripts and render to UT 422, which supports Alpha, and has slightly better file size than ProRes.

Another option is to enable Quicktime 7 in the Deprecated tab, and install DNxHD/DNxHR which support Alpha, and are right on par with ProRes..

"It would be extremely useful to be able to achieve this without having to install the old obsolete Quicktime codecs..."

It's possible to have a graphic overlay with transparency without rendering to an intermediate. In Project Media, replace your intermediate file with the Vegas project that you used to create it. It's called nesting. I do it that way all the time. Since I learned about nesting first, it was a long time before I ever used an intermediate with an alpha channel.

Some interesting reading on alpha channel.

Nesting Your Way to Greatness - The Movie

Thanks for your replies.

@Musicvid I'll research where to get the installers for these other options, as I have been curious about what else might be available. Anything that is not obsoleted on Windows 10 would be very interesting. I'm curious what the difference will be in the rendered file sizes, since the Magix 422 (which looks great BTW) creates such large files.

@john_dennis Yes, this is what I'm currently, and typically forced to do, is to build and drop a VEG project file into the primary editing project. It works really well where the nested project is simple, but it's when it is of a greater complexity, then combined with other layered tracks of video, that it can become a strain on the computer. In this scenario, I would often prefer to render it to the intermediate.

It would be great to see this added to the Magix 442, or otherwise use some of the others mentioned by Musicvid, and hope too that their file sizes might be a bit smaller. I'll let you know how this works.

A further option is to use CineForm AVI which supports alpha channel export in Vegas Pro.

@Former user

File Size, PSNR (Shadow Noise) and SSIM (Structural Simililarity) comparisons are all included in my chart for your perusal. ymmv.

@Marco. Thanks, I'll check this out too, but with AVI, especially uncompressed, the file sizes can get very large.

@Musicvid Yes, thanks for the great chart, which I've downloaded to my work drive. Very good information.

You may not know that UT and Magic YUV are the new generation of AVI, no comparison whatsoever to Uncompressed -- in fact, 99% smaller. Don't get hung up over last century's technology.

Though only CineForm RGBA 4444 supports the alpha channel, there are six levels of compression. It's not uncompressed.

Between the highest and the lowest CineForm quality choices the compression ratio varies between about 4:1 and 16:1 (for the RGB versions).

@Musicvid Seems Happy Otter Scripts are still in beta; will wait on the final release (already involved in a number of ongoing beta-testing projects).

I've downloaded and installed the Avid Codecs, but they are not visible in Vegas Pro 17. No doubt it's a paths issue, so I'll need to dig deeper to figure out where the installer placed the files, then where to move them so they will appear in VP17's Render As dialog.

@Marco. I was able to find my way to the CineForm-SDK on GitHub, and downloaded the cineform-sdk-master archive. It seems a bit non-trivial to install this on Windows so that it can be used to encode from VP17. When I've got more time for a deep-dive, I'll try to figure it out.

I'm not sure if this still is the way to go but I once installed CineForm just by installing the GoPro Studio software.

I did exactly as @Marco. mentioned a few years ago.

@Marco. It appears that GoPro Studio has been discontinued some time ago, and now they have the newer GoPro Quik. It's a complete unknown (and therefore an even deeper dive down the rabbit hole to find a solution), if this will install the codecs, and if they will be available from within VP17's Render As dialog. I'll give it a try to see.

Any ideas about the paths where codecs should be placed on Windows 10, for them to be usable inside VP17? After installing the Avid codecs, it's unclear how to get them working, although I've activated the deprecated QT in preferences. Surely this is installed somewhere that VP can't use it.

Kind of unfortunate that something so seemingly trivial, is completely unavailable in VP17, but alas, such is life.

@Former user

Try this link from Derek Moran's (Dr. Zen - MovieStudioZen.com) tutorial. I believe he even updated the location for the GoPro Studio software, which should be something like (2.5.3.xxx or 2.5.9.2658). Watch AND read his tutorial. At his site, he also has a tutorial on installation of DNxHD/DNxHR with the QuickTime installer.

You many be reluctant to try recommended solutions because of appearances, not quantified testing.

Cineform, Happy Otter scripts, UT, Magic, Avid LE, the AVI wrapper in general, all include professional, open source solutions that, unlike ProRes 422, support Alpha, and are being suggested here by professionals.

Do let us know when you find yours.

@Chief24 I read through the second article and watched the video about the Avid codecs DNxHD/DNxHR, which was informative, and confirmed that in the VP17 Render As dialog, the QuickTime option is simply not available after installation - which was to-the-letter identical to what they demonstrated - although, as above, I've made certain that the deprecated "Enable the QuickTime plugin" is checked in Preferences/Deprecated Features. This was the first thing I tried on Musicvid's suggestion. Tried everything above including rebooting the PC, but to no avail.

I'll read/watch the other as time permits.

Good news: I was able to get the CineForm codec working with alpha-channel. Did a few test renders, and the quality is pretty nice on the higher quality settings. Thanks for everyone's help. Most appreciated.

Feel free to mark one of the replies as The Solution, if you wish.

@Former user to create Alpha-channel video's I still use the QuickTime 7 component. Enable it in Preferences/Depricated Features. I do not wan't to use QT7, but I have to. Because with the Animation settings you can create nice alpha's that are decent in file-size/quality.

Happy Otter Scripts is still in beta, but it works very well and is highly recommended to be installed on any system that runs Vegas. Basically it is a fully functional app that happens to currently be free because waaag doesn't quite feel it is ready to come out of beta, but many of us have been using it for a long time now, mostly without issue. The functionality it adds is amazing.

You can also use it to render out higher quality deliverable formats.

@Musicvid Perhaps a matter of semantics, but personally speaking, The Solution, would ideally be the ability to do this natively within Vegas without needing to install extra codecs and software, while other options one might characterize as The Workaround. Coming from an audio, graphic-design and video editing background though, I'm no stranger to The Workaround workflow, but really appreciate the elegance of more integrated solutions.

@joost-berk Since I was unable to get VP17 to recognize the Avid codecs, I did resort to installing QT as well, which is something I would've preferred to have avoided. If I may ask, what kinds of settings are you typically using to get decent quality, while keeping the rendered file sizes smaller?

@fr0sty Thanks for the additional information and encouragement to explore HOS. I'll try to check it out soon. I'm curious if when you have this installed on your system, if HOS options are available in VP17's, Render As, dialog, or is their use something that must run in parallel with Vegas? Forgive the question, but I truly have no idea about how this works yet.

Thanks again to everyone for their help. It's greatly appreciated.

The Solution, would ideally be the ability to do this natively within Vegas without needing to install extra codecs and software, while other options one might characterize as The Workaround.

You may be idealizing. Vegas natively supports a number of essential commercially licensed codecs; they cost us a lot of buck$ in our price of purchase. Those licensure agreements are legally binding, often heavily forbidding parallel use of GNU/GPL solutions, except by user download. The other solution is for Magix to write its own code, as it has with ProRes, which still adds to our final cost.

So, would you actually prefer a higher purchase price for Vegas as opposed to the minor inconvenience of adding free third-party open source solutions to fill out the repertoire? Welcome to video editing.

My comment, however, was not about the product, but about your peer forum users, who volunteer their time without reservation. I know Marco is already pleased he was able to facilitate your "workaround," without expecting even an "attaboy." But thoughtfulness as a way of life around here is something we constantly work on, prior expectations notwithstanding. Welcome to the forums; I'm sure that your inquiring nature will make you a valuable asset to our effort.

@Musicvid Check this settings. These also apply in 3840x2160 and up to 60fps (don't forget to adjust the keyframe settings to match your frame-rate)

This works fast for me, and with moderate file sizes.

First install QT7 (Typical), reboot and start VP17, then in the Render As.. dialog you'll see QuickTime 7 and create a template by clicking "customize" button.

Good luck!

EDIT: TURN "COMPRESSED DEPTH" TO: "32 bpp color" to actually make the Alpha channel work.