Remuxing to avoid video gen loss

Rednroll wrote on 9/17/2019, 5:46 PM

Hey folks, I'm looking for tools, tips, suggestions in regards to what can and can't be done in regards to re-muxing a video file to avoid re-rendering and thus getting a generation loss in video quality.

So in the past I've been able to replace the audio track of a video container file using a free tool called "eac3to". The tool worked but it was all command line based with no user interface, which made it difficult for me to use since I didn't use it that often and trying to remember how to do a particular task I often found myself spending more time trying to figure out how to do a task than actually performing the task.

Here's what I'm trying to figure out currently.

1. Is there anyway to remux a video and audio track within Vegas without rendering and losing video quality and how? Let's use the example of replacing the audio track only.

2. If not in Vegas, which software tool would you recommend? Preferably something which is free/shareware and with a simple user interface.

3. Is there a way to splice video files together by remuxing without having to render?

For example: Let's say I have a 15minute long video file with audio, and I wanted to do some simple cuts (ie no cross-fades) with different sections from that same video file to create a 1 minute long compilation trailer. Is it possible to just re-mux those individual sections together without having to render them and avoiding a potential loss in video quality? Is there a particular file container I would have to use that supports this? Can this be done in Vegas and if not, what tool would you recommend?

Thanks!

 

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 9/17/2019, 6:33 PM

1. Not easily, unless you stick with avi or mpeg-2.

2. AVIDemux, ffmpeg, mp4box

3. Several tools can cocatenate, but this can cause audio glitches in Vegas. I use VideoRedo, others have suggested mp4Joiner (free).

(4.) I suggest rendering lossless avi in Vegas, then joining in ffmpeg, understanding that there will still be a second render. Again, play with mp4joiner, I haven't yet.

[Edit] A nifty way to to this would be to import the original file in VideoRedo, then set in/out points, just including the material you want to join and smart-render. VideoRedo is a paid solution, and I'm beta-testing version 6.

Good questions!

 

Rednroll wrote on 9/17/2019, 8:45 PM

Thank you Musicvid! I'm going to look into those tools and explore lossless AVI in Vegas to get a better understanding of that as well. Great stuff!

 

P.S. Just looked into VideoRedo TVsuite.

"TVSuite edits your MPEG2 or H.264/AVC files fast with our newly re-written smart edit engine. Smart edit recodes just a few frames at each cut point and retains all the original quality of your videos."

Now that sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. Is that similar to how rendering as lossless AVI works in Vegas?

rraud wrote on 9/18/2019, 11:01 AM

I like the MeGUI to mux in AAC audio to an MP4 video. MeGUI seems easier to me, but the muxers that MV suggested do the same thing w/o touching the picture quality.
 I usually use the fdkaac or the Nero AAC encoder. However I can't hear much difference between the above and the VP AAC encoders at 128 kbps and higher.

Musicvid wrote on 9/18/2019, 11:51 AM

Now that sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. Is that similar to how rendering as lossless AVI works in Vegas?

1. Yes. I purchased it a decade ago and never looked back.

2. Not exactly. AVI is interframe, which means GOP=I

Musicvid wrote on 9/18/2019, 5:28 PM

However I can't hear much difference between the above and the VP AAC encoders at 128 kbps and higher.

@rraud I agree.

Licensed Mainconcept AAC isn't that bad. It's the open-source encoders that have been a virtual wasteland for any quality. Ffmpeg's native AAC has undergone a lot of development recently, and is starting to raise some eyebrows as a contender to fdk and Nero.

wwaag wrote on 9/19/2019, 12:29 AM

Another option is TMPGEnc's Smart Renderer 5 which can also smart-render HEVC in addition to mpeg2/avc/h264. http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tmsr5.html

I'd suggest downloading both and choose which one best meets your needs.

 

Last changed by wwaag on 9/19/2019, 12:30 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Rednroll wrote on 9/19/2019, 4:56 PM

Thank you wwaag, I appreciate all the suggestions since that's what I plan on doing is checking them all out to see what works best for me. It seems like the term "Smart Rendering" is something I've wanted but never knew existed until I started this thread. There's been many times where I've taken a previously existing video, chopped it up and rearranged a couple things but was never thrilled with the end results since there was an obvious downgrade in video quality after rendering. Now if there's only a slight loss at the cut transition points using a smart rendering tool and the sections where nothing has been changed don't lose any quality, that is something I can live with. It has always frustrated me trying to understand the reasons why we're working with digital video, I'm not changing anything in the video via filters, color correction, adding text ,etc, but when I rendered everything resulted in a degradation render loss. For me, that seemed like the days of the past when making an analog tape copy.