Rendering: NVIDIA 2070 "Stop and Go" Issue

Leon-R wrote on 6/5/2019, 6:26 PM

Good afternoon,

Long time reader, first-time commenter.

I have been dealing with an issue for the last year or so as I have been improving my gear. I have been using Vegas Pro for probably ten years and currently use Vegas Pro 16.0 Build 424.

Here are my PC specs:

Power Supply: 850 Watt EVGA SuperNOVA G3

 Power Supply Sleeved Cable Color: Red Individually Sleeved Cables

 Motherboard: MSI B450M Bazooka V2

 System Cooling.: Standard Air Cooling AMD

 Processors: AMD RYZEN 5 2600 6-Core 3.4GHz (3.9GHz TurboBoost)

 Graphic Cards: Single 8GB GeForce RTX 2070 Founder's Edition

 Memory: 32GB PC DDR4 Powered by Kingston RGB 2933MHz (4 x 8GB)

 Operating System: MS Windows 10 Home

 Operating System Drive: 1TB Seagate BarraCuda SSD

 Hard Drive #2: 2TB Western Digital Caviar Black

 Audio: On Board High Definition 8-Channel Audio

 Networking: ASUS PCE-AC68 Dual-band Wireless-AC1900 Adapter mATX

As noted above, I am using an RTX 2070, and when I render my videos, I get a strange issue during render where it stops every two seconds (almost as if it is perfectly timed) and then begins rendering for another two seconds, and so on and so forth for the duration of the render process.

Has anyone else experienced this issue? Is there any insight on potential fixes to this? I have heard about using NVIDIA Studio driver to help but have noticed no changes.

Thanks in advance for your time.

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 6/5/2019, 6:35 PM

I believe it is normal buffering, but others with your GPU may have other ideas.

In order to help, will you please provide the following information for both your source and render files?

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

fr0sty wrote on 6/5/2019, 6:38 PM

From what I can tell, all Nvidia GPUs do this in Vegas using NVENC. My GTX 970 did it as well... though it isn't exactly what I'd consider a "slow down" in performance, it would render a group of frames incredibly fast (sometimes even faster than my much more capable Radeon 7) before pausing. It likely has to do with data being loaded in and out of some sort of buffer like MusicVid mentioned, I wouldn't worry about it. You likely are getting as much performance out of the card as you can.

Leon-R wrote on 6/5/2019, 7:06 PM

Thanks to both of you. I am working on getting the file info.

 

fr0sty, this appears to be abnormal in my years of using the software. The pauses in between rendering a few frames are probably about five seconds, renders for two more seconds, and then pauses again. Its hard to believe that this is the maximum speed a 2070 card is capable of, especially with minimal fx, color grading, etc. Even with none of those things enabled, it still does it.

Leon-R wrote on 6/5/2019, 7:07 PM

Here are the file properties:

Type: AVC
  Size: 163.96 MB (167,893,759 bytes)
  Created: Wednesday, June 5, 2019, 7:14:52 PM
  Modified: Wednesday, June 5, 2019, 7:20:45 PM
  Accessed: Wednesday, June 5, 2019, 7:20:45 PM
  Attributes: Archive

Streams
  Video: 00:02:41.428, 29.970 fps progressive, 1920x1080x32, AVC
  Audio: 00:02:41.364, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, AAC

Summary
  [TCFM]: 6

ACID information
  ACID chunk: no
  Stretch chunk: no
  Stretch list: no
  Stretch info2: no
  Beat markers: no
  Detected beats: no

Other metadata
  Regions/markers: no
  Command markers: no

Media manager
  Media tags: no

Plug-In
  Name: so4compoundplug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 16.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\so4compoundplug
  Format: AVC
  Version: Version 1.0 (Build 8532)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

bitman wrote on 6/7/2019, 11:55 AM

@Leon-R This is a known "issue" with Vegas. I put "issue" between quotes as it is not bug, but it is just the way Vegas rendering behaves due to the Vegas sw architecture, and/or VEGAS drivers. Your system is not to blame. I have the same issue, and just now I have proof that the NVIDEA can render much faster and smoothly instead of in bursts, all on the same system: I just upgraded magix sister NLE product Video pro X, and rendering a 4K source file (without any edits) to HEVC is incredibly fast and smooth as compared to Vegas on my PC.

This was the best proof to me that there is no HW bottleneck somewhere in my system (even if there would be some bottleneck, it can apparently be mitigated through different coding).

Last changed by bitman on 6/7/2019, 12:01 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

Current system: VP 17 (edit), VP16 (suite) build 424, VP15 (suite) build 416, Magix Video Pro X (VPX11), Corel VS ultimate 2019, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Titler Pro 6, Mercalli 4.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 12, VASST stuff, Production Assistent pro3, Boris Continuum 2019, Davinci Resolve Studio 16 b...

  • OS: Windows 10 Pro 64, version 1903
  • CPU: der8auer i7-8700K (advanced edition), default speed (no overclock), Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 DDR4 64GB, XMP set to profile 1 in BIOS
  • Videocard: NVIDEA RTX 2080Ti (Founders edition), NVIDEA studio drivers
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - yes upgraded from 34 to 38, I can see more tracks now! Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB 960 pro
  • Data storage: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
  • PS: Corsair HX1200i, Case: Silverstone fortress 2, shuttlePROv2, Keyboard and mouse: Logitech G910 and G700s (and now Evoluent Vertical Mouse)

Before November 2018: NVIDEA Gibabyte GTX 1080ti

Before November 2017: windows 10 Pro 64, i7-4790k, mem: DDR3 16GB GTX TITAN X (Maxwell)

 

JN_ wrote on 6/7/2019, 1:35 PM

@bitman “I put "issue" between quotes as it is not bug,”

Well, if its not a bug? then its poorly implemented in Vegas Pro, given we now know, thanks, that it can be done better.

Have you done a render time comparison? Is the stop go leading to slower render times than it should be?

Just saw your “much faster” part, can you give us say what percentage difference, thanks.

Last changed by JN_ on 6/7/2019, 1:47 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

bob-h wrote on 6/8/2019, 5:42 AM

The delay doesn't happen in other editors nor transcoders, so it's something they could possibly fix in a future version, although i'm not sure the magix crew are capable. Maybe a licencing issue? They can provide addons, and new features but the basic 'engine' is not within their expertise, and why it's never changed since the accusation from sony

JN_ wrote on 6/8/2019, 6:21 AM

Well, I decided to check it out myself, I downloaded a trial version of Magix Video Pro X.

I tested mainly Hevc. and confirmed that it had Hardware acceleration enabled in settings.

I used a source file of 27s 4K UHD 25fps rendered to 4K uhd, 25fps, the resultant data rate and size  matched very close for both programs.

The slight hesitancy was still obvious in VP compared to Video Pro X while rendering.

Render times ...

Magix Video Pro X.   0:50s

VP 16                         0:28s

 

Update:  I confirmed that the HW Acc. is indeed working, (its a trial version) by disabling it in settings.

The render time then went from 0:50s to 2:28s.

 

 

Last changed by JN_ on 6/9/2019, 7:26 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

ryclark wrote on 6/8/2019, 8:37 AM

So VP is still faster to render even with 'stop and go'?

JN_ wrote on 6/8/2019, 11:35 AM

It would appear so, unless bitman has some further imput? re: “much faster?

Last changed by JN_ on 6/8/2019, 11:36 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

bitman wrote on 6/9/2019, 3:18 AM

@JN_ Much faster in the case: no edits on the source file (source file is 4K 25P from Sony RX10 mark3, duration: 1 minute 8s) rendering all default settings on both Vegas and Magix video pro X11 to HEVC.

rendering time Vegas 16: 79s

rendering time MPX (11): 46s

so (almost) double the speed

@Leon-R

@ryclark

You can see the effect of stop and go of Vegas rendering (spikes), right picture.

The left picture is MPX 11 rendering

Note that the utilization percent of the video encoding of Vegas rendering is not representative as it is a momentary snapshot, the utilization with the spikes goes wildly up and down anywhere between 12% to 89%

Current system: VP 17 (edit), VP16 (suite) build 424, VP15 (suite) build 416, Magix Video Pro X (VPX11), Corel VS ultimate 2019, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Titler Pro 6, Mercalli 4.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 12, VASST stuff, Production Assistent pro3, Boris Continuum 2019, Davinci Resolve Studio 16 b...

  • OS: Windows 10 Pro 64, version 1903
  • CPU: der8auer i7-8700K (advanced edition), default speed (no overclock), Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 DDR4 64GB, XMP set to profile 1 in BIOS
  • Videocard: NVIDEA RTX 2080Ti (Founders edition), NVIDEA studio drivers
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - yes upgraded from 34 to 38, I can see more tracks now! Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB 960 pro
  • Data storage: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
  • PS: Corsair HX1200i, Case: Silverstone fortress 2, shuttlePROv2, Keyboard and mouse: Logitech G910 and G700s (and now Evoluent Vertical Mouse)

Before November 2018: NVIDEA Gibabyte GTX 1080ti

Before November 2017: windows 10 Pro 64, i7-4790k, mem: DDR3 16GB GTX TITAN X (Maxwell)

 

bitman wrote on 6/9/2019, 3:46 AM

It is not all roses with MPX however, rendering the same file into MPEG4 I would assume they use nvenc, but that is a no, the encoder window in the windows resource manager stays frightfully empty... Also the rendering took a whopping 3 minutes and 30s. Not sure that is indented or a bug.

Rendering in Vegas to Magix AVC with NVENC took only 1 minute and 13 s, so almost real time, and the nv encoder was used (albeit with spikes again).

MPX seems slower with timeline edits when using plugins, and also when rendering out with plugins and edits, even in HEVC, but this will take more investigation.

I would like to conclude that there is room for improvement in the software, for both Magix' NLE's.

Current system: VP 17 (edit), VP16 (suite) build 424, VP15 (suite) build 416, Magix Video Pro X (VPX11), Corel VS ultimate 2019, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Titler Pro 6, Mercalli 4.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 12, VASST stuff, Production Assistent pro3, Boris Continuum 2019, Davinci Resolve Studio 16 b...

  • OS: Windows 10 Pro 64, version 1903
  • CPU: der8auer i7-8700K (advanced edition), default speed (no overclock), Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 DDR4 64GB, XMP set to profile 1 in BIOS
  • Videocard: NVIDEA RTX 2080Ti (Founders edition), NVIDEA studio drivers
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - yes upgraded from 34 to 38, I can see more tracks now! Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB 960 pro
  • Data storage: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
  • PS: Corsair HX1200i, Case: Silverstone fortress 2, shuttlePROv2, Keyboard and mouse: Logitech G910 and G700s (and now Evoluent Vertical Mouse)

Before November 2018: NVIDEA Gibabyte GTX 1080ti

Before November 2017: windows 10 Pro 64, i7-4790k, mem: DDR3 16GB GTX TITAN X (Maxwell)

 

JN_ wrote on 6/9/2019, 5:46 AM

@Leon-R @ryclark @bitman @bob-h 

So, the plot thickens.  I realised it may have not been the smartest way to do this testing by using a source file of XAVC-I .mxf type.  For some reason this ALL-I file type must give a big render advantage to VP16, perhaps its better optimised for it.

I now selected a Panasonic GX80 4K UHD 25fps clip, ~0:19s duration for re-doing this test again, staying with HEVC as output codec.  Origional file size is 219mb and data rate is ~96.5 Mb/s.

Using default settings for both VP and VPX will give different Data Rates and resultant file sizes, so I modified the default VP Nvenc template to closely match the VPX output.  All output was 4K UHD 25fps.

The resultant file sizes were VP16/VPX … 84.9/84.0 mb

The resultant data rates were VP16/VPX …37,332/36,905 kbps

The resultant render times were VP16/VPX … 16/11s

So now VP16 is slower, perhaps because of this stop go issue in VP.

 

RE: VPX mp4 h264 encoding. Enabling/disabling HW encoding in the advanced section of the mpeg-4 section makes no difference to render times.  So in VPX you'r out of luck if you want to use it.  I tested VP/VPX render times, obviously VP with and VPX without HW encoding.  Results.. VP/VPX 12/38s.  Again I modified the render template to get similar data rates and file sizes.

 

 For all of the intermediate rendering below I assume it would be CPU only, no HW encoding.

As an aside I rendered out an Intermediate 422 HQ, the VP/VPX times were .. 1:22s/1:29s but I noticed that the data rate and file size for the VP16 render was smaller.  Looking at mediainfo the codec id's are VP/VPX APCN/APCH. 

Last changed by JN_ on 6/9/2019, 8:05 AM, changed a total of 8 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

BruceUSA wrote on 6/9/2019, 9:41 AM

I don't know Video Pro X can render any better or not. But a 20s GH5 10 bit 4K 30P footage render in Hevc finished in 12s for me.

JN_ wrote on 6/9/2019, 12:59 PM

Hi @BruceUSA, thanks, but I think this start stop hardware encoding issue is confined to Nvidia, not Amd, so therefore you should get better, smoother hardware encoding of h264/h265.

Last changed by JN_ on 6/9/2019, 1:02 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

BruceUSA wrote on 6/9/2019, 1:08 PM

Hi @BruceUSA, thanks, but I think this start stop hardware encoding issue is confined to Nvidia, not Amd, so therefore you should get better, smoother hardware encoding of h264/h265.

Right. I hope VP17 will address the issue with Nividia card. VP17 need to find a way to use those RTX cards more effectively to increase the performance in both area, TL and Rendering.

JN_ wrote on 6/11/2019, 7:01 AM

Agreed.

I noticed that although the VPX and ffmpeg render times are much better than VP16, the quality for VPX was poorer using thee SSIM and PSNR tests.  I did the test once more, but similar results. 

As an aside, for fun, I also tested to see what the quality difference was between with and without HW encode, again using ffmpeg's SSIM and PSNR, tested on laptop.  Really, according to these tests very little difference, but an enormous 80 to 1 render time ratio.  Of course eyeballing the playback may show a bigger difference?

All tests used the same 4K UHD 25fps 219mb 96.5 Mb/s 19s duration source.mp4 clip as in previous post.

I've deleted my previous post as this summarises it better.

Last changed by JN_ on 6/11/2019, 7:39 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.