Trying to edit a Zoom video and getting vastly different quality

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 6:21 PM

Zoom can record your meeting and render a video of the meeting. These are super compressed files. Zoom is typically headshots and screen shares. Not fast motion. At what bitrate did Zoom render the video conference ? The app renders it at Under 300 bps!!!   With no loss of clarity.  45 mins video is only 70MB.

Here is the weird part. I had to make some edits to the video in Vegas. Cut some stuff out. I render at the same bitrate as the source file (300 bps), I get grainy resolution. No idea why.  I had to re-render at 2,000,000 bps to get the same clarity as the source video which is only at 300 bps. The encoding codec I am using is using Magix AVC/AAC MP4.

My Zoom laptop is 1366x728 so that is the resolution of the Zoom video.   Not changing the screen resolution also makes much faster rendering. I set resolution same as source file 1366x728 and render time was 5 mins. For a 40 min. video. w/ 2,000,000 bps  (File size 600MB)

Bottom line.  To render a video w/ Vegas with the SAME quality as Zoom’s raw output, my filesize needs to be TEN times bigger (60MB vs 600MB) and a bitrate of almost 10x as well. (300bps vs. 2mm bps)

Anyone know what is going on? I'd like to cut down the source file (300 bps, 60MB), and render something similar.

Comments

Teagan wrote on 1/5/2021, 7:11 PM

Can you post a media info of the zoom file you're talking about?

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 7:30 PM

I will post both the Zoom raw source and my Vegas rendered at the same bitrate

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 7:31 PM

ZOOM

General
Complete name                            : D:\ZoomSourceFile.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 68.3 MiB
Duration                                 : 44 min 28 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 215 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-05 18:47:24
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-05 18:47:24

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5
Format settings                          : CABAC / 11 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 11 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 44 min 28 s
Bit rate                                 : 86.5 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 366 pixels
Height                                   : 728 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 1.85:1
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.003
Stream size                              : 27.5 MiB (40%)
Title                                    : H.264/AVC video
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-05 18:47:24
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-05 18:47:24
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 44 min 28 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 126 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 151 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Channel layout                           : C
Sampling rate                            : 32.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 40.2 MiB (59%)
Title                                    : AAC audio
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-05 18:47:24
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-05 18:47:24

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 7:37 PM

Crappy quality Vegas render , also around 300 kbps, yet 3x the size 160MB, and terrible quality.

 

General
Complete name                            : D:\VEGAS Render 300kbps.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 143 MiB
Duration                                 : 40 min 12 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 497 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-05 23:13:38
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-05 23:13:38

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L3.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=4, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 40 min 12 s
Source duration                          : 40 min 12 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 303 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 384 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 366 pixels
Height                                   : 728 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 1.85:1
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.010
Stream size                              : 87.1 MiB (61%)
Source stream size                       : 87.1 MiB (61%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-05 23:13:39
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-05 23:13:39
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 40 min 12 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 258 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 54.5 MiB (38%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-05 23:13:39
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-05 23:13:39

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 7:39 PM

Good quality Vegas Render, around 2,000 kbps, 10x the size 600MB, and comparable quality to the raw Zoom

 

General
Complete name                            : D:\VEGAS Render 2000 kbps.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 589 MiB
Duration                                 : 40 min 12 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 2 048 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-05 23:04:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-05 23:04:57

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L3.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=4, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 40 min 12 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 1 854 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 2 000 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 366 pixels
Height                                   : 728 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 1.85:1
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.075
Stream size                              : 533 MiB (91%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-05 23:04:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-05 23:04:57
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 40 min 12 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 258 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 54.5 MiB (9%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-05 23:04:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-05 23:04:57

Teagan wrote on 1/5/2021, 7:51 PM

The only difference I see easily is that the Zoom file is using AVC High while you are using AVC Main. Do you have access to AVC High L5? Also, copy al the other settings you see, if possible.

If not, I'd suggest trying HEVC as that's much higher compression for the bitrate, about 2:1 compared to h.264.

Also, to be sure it's not a problem with Vegas, I'd try rendering to uncompressed AVI and then to AVC high.

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 7:53 PM

Even the poor quality Vegas file is 3x bigger,  has 2x the bitrate, compared to the Zoom raw

ZOOM

File size                                : 68.3 MiB
Overall bit rate                         : 215 kb/s

 

bad VEGAS

File size                                : 143 MiB
Overall bit rate                         : 497 kb/s

 

Good Vegas

File size                                : 589 MiB
Overall bit rate                         : 2,048 kb/s

 

 

I need to figure out what is causing the insane VEGAS bloat

10x the file size for similar quality of the raw file

 

VEGAS is NTSC and Zoom is not.   Need to look that up ?

I can’t imagine it’s the audio rendering that’s causing files to explode to 10x the size.

 

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 7:58 PM

The only difference I see easily is that the Zoom file is using AVC High while you are using AVC Main. Do you have access to AVC High L5? Also, copy al the other settings you see, if possible.

If not, I'd suggest trying HEVC as that's much higher compression for the bitrate, about 2:1 compared to h.264.

Also, to be sure it's not a problem with Vegas, I'd try rendering to uncompressed AVI and then to AVC high.

Thanks for looking.

These are the formats in my Customize Template

https://i.imgur.com/MloogoH.jpg

 

Teagan wrote on 1/5/2021, 8:01 PM

The options will be inside that Magix AVC selection under customize template.

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 8:16 PM

What am I looking for here?

https://i.imgur.com/kRavQGs.png

 

Encode Mode choices:

Mainconcept AVC

NV Encoder

 

Teagan wrote on 1/5/2021, 8:35 PM

Musicvid wrote on 1/5/2021, 8:37 PM

The Mainconcept encoder is not stellar at modest bitrates. Try x264 in Happy Otter Scripts or Handbrake and see if you can tell a difference.

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 8:54 PM

How can I get x264?

I use that instead of choosing AVC?

Musicvid wrote on 1/5/2021, 9:00 PM

x264 is an AVC encoder.

Once again, you can get it in Happy Otter Scripts, Handbrake, or Voukoder.

A forum search will lead you to the resources.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/got-questions-consult-the-tutorials-first-please--120282/

 

GoodEnough wrote on 1/5/2021, 9:11 PM

I'm trying AVC w/ Profile: High with bitrate 300 kbs and filesize 150MB.

Quality is still crap. How can the same bitrate result in way worse quality?

Teagan wrote on 1/5/2021, 9:26 PM

Re-compression is a nightmare.

GoodEnough wrote on 1/6/2021, 3:35 PM

x264 is an AVC encoder.

Once again, you can get it in Happy Otter Scripts, Handbrake, or Voukoder.

A forum search will lead you to the resources.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/got-questions-consult-the-tutorials-first-please--120282/

 

Hmm, I don't think I Want to pay for additional encoding software after paying $70 for Vegas. Kind of disappointing to have to pay for features that should have been included correctly in the main product.

Teagan wrote on 1/6/2021, 3:45 PM

Handbrake is free, right?

Edit: yes it's free.

GoodEnough wrote on 1/6/2021, 6:57 PM

Handbrake is free, right?

Edit: yes it's free.

Yea, but I'm editing in Vegas 16

EricLNZ wrote on 1/6/2021, 8:15 PM

@GoodEnough Are you using Vegas Pro 16 or Vegas Movie Studio 16?

Also for your convenience when posting images you can attach them here using the upload button rather than upload to an external site.

3POINT wrote on 1/7/2021, 3:45 AM

When Vpro16 is your NLE, you can install free Voukoder. With Voukoder you can directly render the Vegastimeline to x264, which will definitely result in smaller files with good quality.

GoodEnough wrote on 1/7/2021, 8:49 AM

@GoodEnough Are you using Vegas Pro 16 or Vegas Movie Studio 16?

Also for your convenience when posting images you can attach them here using the upload button rather than upload to an external site.

Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 16

GoodEnough wrote on 1/7/2021, 8:51 AM

Thanks. I will explore these other options over the weekend

3POINT wrote on 1/7/2021, 9:00 AM

@GoodEnough Are you using Vegas Pro 16 or Vegas Movie Studio 16?

Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 16

Thanks. I will explore these other options over the weekend

Then forget about Voukoder and Happy Otter Scripts (works only for VegasPro).

Only option left is Handbrake, means as Musicvid explained, render to an intermediate and import this into Handbrake.