I have a project I started in V13. I opened it in V17 and the quality is so much worse.
You can see from the screen shots the difference. Any suggestions is much appreciated.
Well, is it i or p?
It is i. I did not change any of the project settings. Just opened it in 17 and this is what it looks like.
I'd set the preview to Best (Full) and do the comparison. Auto seems so arbitrary.
I did and it looks worse. You can see a lot of blockiness.
Do you have GPU decoding switched on Vegas 17?
Yes, I turned it off and there is no difference.
Please post this information for your:
Here is the original footage:
General
Complete name : G:\2019 DOES Las Vegas\Capture\Monday\CLIP0000002_QSLS.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 12.1 GiB
Duration : 14 min 25 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 120 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2019-11-04 18:12:50
Tagged date : UTC 2019-11-04 18:12:50
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
Video
ID : 1
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422 LT
Codec ID : apcs
Duration : 14 min 25 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 117 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Clean aperture width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Clean aperture height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Clean aperture display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan type, store method : Interleaved fields
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.879
Stream size : 11.8 GiB (97%)
Writing library : CDSN
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2019-11-04 18:12:50
Tagged date : UTC 2019-11-04 18:12:50
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Big / Signed
Codec ID : lpcm
Duration : 14 min 25 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 3 072 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 32 bits
Stream size : 7.26 TiB
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2019-11-04 18:12:50
Tagged date : UTC 2019-11-04 18:12:50
Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 14 min 25 s
Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code, striped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2019-11-04 18:12:50
Tagged date : UTC 2019-11-04 18:12:50
----------------------------------------------------------------
I only rendered out a small section and it looks like what I see on the preview window:
General
Complete name : G:\2019 DOES Las Vegas\Renders\V17 DOES Las Vegas Monday-01.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size : 113 MiB
Duration : 1 min 6 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 14.2 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2019-11-14 13:48:49
Tagged date : UTC 2019-11-14 13:48:49
Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4
Format settings : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=4, N=15
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1 min 6 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 14.0 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.225
Stream size : 112 MiB (99%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2019-11-14 13:49:03
Tagged date : UTC 2019-11-14 13:49:03
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Codec configuration box : avcC
Audio
ID : 1
Format : AAC LC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID : mp4a-40-2
Duration : 1 min 6 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 249 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.51 MiB (1%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2019-11-14 13:48:49
Tagged date : UTC 2019-11-14 13:48:49
Please post the Vegas properties for the .mov source in both V13 and V17 projects. I know this sounds a bit complicated. Since you have .MOV source, knowing which available decoder was used may lead us to some answers.
Also, please post MediaInfo for both the V13 and V17 rendered files, as requested.
Sir, either the source decoding or output encoding is different. In order to determine what it is, we now need 4 sets of data. Sorry to make you jump through hoops.
V13
V17
Your right side preview is showing an interlaced frame, the left is showing progressive. If you notice the Text looks about the same quality in both. Make your previews match before comparing.
Thanks for posting your project properties. Again, those are not what is needed to determine the input decoder for each project version. The instructions for providing Vegas file properties are in the link now twice provided. Maybe sleep on it.
2. VEGAS FILE PROPERTIES
It also helps to post the File Properties from VEGAS, in particular so that we can see which plugin VEGAS will use to decode the file. Right click on a file in the VEGAS Explorer window, choose "Properties", and copy and paste the text including the Plug-In section at the bottom (you may need to scroll down). Properties are also available by right clicking on a file in the Project Media window, or a video event on the timeline.
Sorry, I've got a bunch of things going on and misread it. This is from the General tab
V13:
Name: CLIP0000010_QSLS.mov
Folder: G:\2019 DOES Las Vegas\Capture\Monday
Type: QuickTime
Size: 15.77 GB (16,151,912,693 bytes)
Created: Monday, November 4, 2019, 3:10:59 PM
Modified: Monday, October 28, 2019, 3:51:02 PM
Accessed: Monday, November 4, 2019, 3:14:34 PM
Attributes: Archive
Streams
Video: 00:17:55.741, 29.970 fps, 1920x1080x24, Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
Audio: 00:17:55.741, 48,000 Hz, 32 Bit (IEEE Float), Stereo, 32-bit Integer
Summary
[GUDE]: {7BB3FE15-954A-4E75-B5E1-45EE98F74990}
[TCFM]: 25769803782
ACID information
ACID chunk: no
Stretch chunk: no
Stretch list: no
Stretch info2: no
Beat markers: no
Detected beats: no
Other metadata
Regions/markers: no
Command markers: no
Media manager
Media tags: no
Plug-In
Name: qt7plug.dll
Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 13.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\qt7plug
Format: QuickTime 7
Version: Version 13.0 (Build 545)
Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.
-------------------------------
V17
Name: CLIP0000010_QSLS.mov
Folder: G:\2019 DOES Las Vegas\Capture\Monday
Type: MAGIX Intermediate
Size: 15.77 GB (16,151,912,693 bytes)
Created: Monday, November 4, 2019, 3:10:59 PM
Modified: Monday, October 28, 2019, 3:51:02 PM
Accessed: Monday, November 4, 2019, 3:14:34 PM
Attributes: Archive
Streams
Video: 00:17:55.742, 29.970 fps interlaced, 1920x1080x32, Intermediate
Audio: 00:17:55.741, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, PCM
ACID information
ACID chunk: no
Stretch chunk: no
Stretch list: no
Stretch info2: no
Beat markers: no
Detected beats: no
Other metadata
Regions/markers: no
Command markers: no
Media manager
Media tags: no
Plug-In
Name: mxhevcplug.dll
Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 17.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\mxhevcplug
Format: MAGIX Intermediate
Version: Version 1.0 (Build 8532)
Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.
Yes, two different decoders, as expected.
But is that the reason?
A worthy comparison is in order. Will you upload a source sample to Drive or Dropbox? I'm sure others with V17 would love to test the decoders.
I still don't see MediaInfo for both V13 and V17 output (renders), so we can see if in fact the parameters are the same.
A troubleshooting matrix with four variables in two sets is difficult to solve without all the data, or a profound sense of logic. Let's go with the data this time.
Musicvid, I didn't do any renders from v13 yet. I have before in the past and see if I can find one I can get the info for. The info for the v17 render is in the post I did at 12:37pm.
Here is smallest file I have, 10gigs. I am using the Apollo unit from Convergent Design for the recording/switching.
Edit: had to change the download link to dropbox
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s13wgzb937j3dg3/CLIP0000006_QSLS.mov?dl=0
In Vegas Pro 13 the decoder that is being used in the video is qt7plug.dll
In Vegas Pro 17 the decoder that is being used in the video is mxhevcplug.dll
This is the logical reason for this difference.
To get the same result as version 13 in version 17 you will have to force Vegas Pro 17 to use the qt7plug.dll decoder.
qt7plug.dll is disabled by default in Vegas pro 17. To enable this decoder follow these steps:
1.Go to Options / Preferences / Deprecated Features / Enable the QuickTime Plugin.
2.Close Vegas Pro 17
3.Go to C: \ Program Files \ VEGAS \ Vegas Pro 17.0 \ FileIO Plug-Ins and Rename the mxhevcplug folder to mxhevcplug.OLD
4.Open Vegas again. If all is right, Vegas will use the qt7plug.dll decoder in your video.
I made a short video showing this process
You can undo these changes at any time you wish:
1.Go back to Options / Preferences / Deprecated Features / and uncheck Enable the QuickTime Plugin.
2. Go again to C: \ Program Files \ VEGAS \ Vegas Pro 17.0 \ FileIO Plug-Ins and Rename the mxhevcplug.OLD folder to mxhevcplug
joelson, there are four variables, not only the input decoder.
YesMaestro, a 30 sec. source sample will be sufficient. 10 Gigs I will not attempt.
Thanks Joelson, that worked. It looks like it does in 13 now.
Musicvid, unfortunately I don't have any source files of the same mov format that are that short. All the interviews I film are 10-20min long, hence the large file size. All other things I film are mts format.
Paul