Vegas 'going to sleep' and also reading Voukoder 8k files

Stephen-Shelton wrote on 10/6/2021, 3:23 PM

Hi two points causing me issue with a Vegas Pro 18 project atm if any kind soul can help me out:

1) I'm doing a big project. A 360 VR video at 8192x4096 render. It's almost 4 mins long and has maybe 20,000 frames in all (5,000 base background) and many smaller size masks and png overlays. It takes a while to load up (and I have a pretty hi-spec i9 32 Gb ram workstation), Once loaded and working in it tbf vegas handles it pretty well, however, should I go off screen, i.e. making something else the active screen, say open up window explorer or something, it seems to go to 'sleep', for want of a better term. So when I go back to it, it takes maybe a 30 secs to a minute to be active. It maybe it's a windows and ram issue and not vegas doing this, but I wondered if there was anything in the settings I could change to stop (or limit) this going to sleep mode ….as it can make working on it like running through treacle at times! Lots of waiting.

2) In the past, with big files, I have made the video in smaller sections and created the master from several 'lossless' submasters. However I'm struggling with the 8k resolution. A while back I was given wonderful advice on here about being able to render out at this resolution using Voukoder, that was so helpful for my youtube master, however Sony Vegas doesn't seem to want to read a Voukoder created mp4 if I try and put one in the time line (one high quality Voukoder file would be so much smaller in size than 5000 8K jpgs). It maybe I'm just being dumb and not aware of some basic settings but is it possible to put a Voukoder 8k render back into Vegas? Many thanks to anyone reading this far and more so, in advance, for any advice

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 10/6/2021, 3:56 PM

Options->Preferences. Uncheck "Close media files when not the active application."
There are a thousand settings in Voukoder. Most people get them wrong. Which settings are you using?

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

Stephen-Shelton wrote on 10/6/2021, 4:33 PM

Options->Preferences. Uncheck "Close media files when not the active application."

There are a thousand settings in Voukoder. Most people get them wrong. Which settings are you using?

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

1. Thank you so much. I had no idea that existed and wouldn't have found it!

2. Project res is 8192x4096 and I've tried a few voukoder settings but none seem to work. One option was their default for example: I'm using the H.264 (Nvidia Nvenca) codec with good quality preset and in options the YUV 4:2:0 (8 bit) bit depth with standards being medium preset, main profile Constant Quantizer (QP) strategy and 17 for Quantizer. No other boxes ticked, no side data or filter options either

Musicvid wrote on 10/6/2021, 5:07 PM

2. Thanks for your anecdotal account. In order to advise you on the correct settings, one would need all the information mentioned in the link provided, including MediaInfo and Vegas reports.

Stephen-Shelton wrote on 10/6/2021, 7:54 PM

Hi, thanks for you help here. I've not used MediaInfo before so not sure what I'm doing but here's an exampe of a file rendered in my Vegas but it doesn't loading into vegas. btw your answer to No 1. has already saved me loads of time, thanks again

General
Complete name                            : D:\films\Steve-solo\Corest3\RENDERS\Corestwo-ALL-8k.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 5.20 GiB
Duration                                 : 3 min 12 s
Overall bit rate                         : 233 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Voukoder (VEGAS)

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L6
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 3 min 12 s
Bit rate                                 : 233 Mb/s
Width                                    : 8 192 pixels
Height                                   : 4 096 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 2.000
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.231
Stream size                              : 5.20 GiB (100%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 164 r3065 ae03d92
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=24 / lookahead_threads=4 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=23.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Properties:

General
Name: Corest3-8K-master.veg
Folder: C:\Users\inzad\FILMS\Capture\Steve music\Correstwo
Type: VEG File
Size: 14.56 MB (14,904,744 bytes)
Created: 01 September 2021, 17:54:52
Modified: 07 October 2021, 01:27:23
Accessed: 07 October 2021, 01:27:23
Attributes: Archive

Other metadata
Regions/markers: no
Command markers: no

Media manager
Media tags: no

Musicvid wrote on 10/6/2021, 8:09 PM

First thing I would try is the HEVC x265 encoder in Voukoder. Yes, it will take longer, but your result should be quite a bit smaller than 5GB.

Stephen-Shelton wrote on 10/6/2021, 8:17 PM

Ok thanks for the tip. Does it take longer because it doesn't use the NVIDIA gpu to render? Should this version reload into vegas and play ok which was the reason for my forum post? I want to do this for a background track and overlay png files over the top. My first thought is maintaining (as close to) lossless, if the file is a lot smaller is it due to more lossy compression? I hope I'm not pushing my luck pestering you with more questions; I really appreciate this support, thanks.

fifonik wrote on 10/6/2021, 8:38 PM

Based on media info you provided the file does not look like it was encoded by NVEnc: "x264 core 164 r3065 ae03d92"

I'd check if smaller files in the same format are supported by VP (file size below 2GB)

Stephen-Shelton wrote on 10/6/2021, 8:51 PM

Based on media info you provided the file does not look like it was encoded by NVEnc: "x264 core 164 r3065 ae03d92"

I'd check if smaller files in the same format are supported by VP (file size below 2GB)

Thank you. I'm just trying to understand why Vegas doesn't accept playing the Voukoder file it, itself, went and rendered. So are you suggesting the size of file affects vegas accepting it (like under 2Gb) or is it something else? I managed to find a VR programme that played back the 8k file I made. It didn't want to play these voukoder rendered files (I was trying to make quality as good as poss) until I did one in the default settings and that played ok, which confused me. So there is something weird (well to the non codec expert like me it seems) about voukoder rendering, or the settings if you play around with them, unless it's all down to file size?

Former user wrote on 10/6/2021, 9:04 PM

@fifonik It will encode via NEVENC HEVC. that supports 8K, NEVENC AVC does not, But then you have a format that necessitates the Vegas GPU Decoder which is pretty awful . I just tried it on timeline it loads, but playback is horrible as expected. Tried with voukoder x264 encode, playback is fine

Stephen-Shelton wrote on 10/6/2021, 9:09 PM

@fifonik It will encode via NEVENC HEVC. that supports 8K, NEVENC AVC does not, But then you have a format that necessitates the Vegas Decoder which is pretty awful . I just tried it on timeline it loads, but playback is horrible as expected. Tried with voukoder x264, playback is fine brought back into editor

Thank you, that's sound like wonderful help, thank you so much for testing it out too. I'm going to give that a try now

Former user wrote on 10/6/2021, 9:21 PM

I used the X264 general purpose preset, it is CRF17 so that is pretty good, but I only encoded 10 seconds. Maybe large encoded files are the problem as you theorized, but for small files, they load in fine

Stephen-Shelton wrote on 10/6/2021, 9:43 PM

Yes I just tried it and it worked fine now thanks. I tried both the h264 and HVECx264 ....I have no real idea what that all means but just following great advice on here When I first loaded them both into vegas they didn't show, what's going on? But they came through after 10-20 secs. and looks great. I wondered it that was the issue before and I owed a big apology, like I hadn't waited long enough with my initial renders but I've tried loading the full file I had rendered out previously in the NVIDIA codec (5+Gb in size) and as I type this, still waiting 10 mins later and it's not displaying in vegas. Just as an aside, while I have this question live, what would be the best codec to render for a youtube upload. I've done the master renders on a couple of other videos with the voukoder NVIDIA codec and youtube has uploaded and processed it ok, but wondering if another codec would give a better compatibility with youtube? ...i have no real idea what I'm talking about but just seeing if there is a known render option that works best with youtubes VP9 codec/compression? I've sort of follow the rule of thumb of make it as uncompressed as poss (within file size reason) as you don't want to be putting it through 2 strong sets of compression getting on to youtube.

Musicvid wrote on 10/6/2021, 9:45 PM

k thanks for the tip. Does it take longer because it doesn't use the NVIDIA gpu to render?

No. x265 is a software encoder, as is x264. It takes longer because it is highly compressed to produce ssmaller files.

FYI, hardware encoders are faster to encode, and take up about twice the space for the same quality as software.

Welcome to the learning curve!

Stephen-Shelton wrote on 10/6/2021, 9:53 PM

No. x265 is a software encoder, as is x264. It takes longer because it is highly compressed to produce ssmaller files.

FYI, hardware encoders are faster to encode, and take up about twice the space for the same quality as software.

Welcome to the learning curve!

Thank you so much again ...I see I'm going to have to research this a bit, I had no idea that there were software and hardware encoders! So am I right in understanding that the Voukoder NVIDIA codec is a hardware encoder, does that mean it needs certain set up to be able to then read that properly (like why it wasn't loading into Vegas and not playing on some VR software?) whereas the software encoder is able to be more universal in playability? May I ask you please, as you know vastly more about this than me. what would produce the best quality file, thinking about the master to upload into youtube?

Musicvid wrote on 10/6/2021, 9:57 PM

what would produce the best quality file, thinking about the master to upload into youtube?

The software encoder, but it doesn't matter that much, because Youtube will mangle the quality anyway during processing.