Vegas renders a 4:3 WMV file as wide instead

SkipCustomer wrote on 7/5/2020, 5:14 PM

My son made a video on the old Windows 7 Muvie Maker (which renders only into WMV), and my latest edition of Vegas doesn't faithfully re-render it. The original is 1440x1080 and my Vegas renders it as stretched into what looks like 16:9 within the 1440x1080 that I required it to produce. Weird, huh?

My old Vegas 11 copy that is on his same computer didn't have this problem, but I'm paying for the latest Vegas, not wanting to go back to the old one installed on an old computer. I expect that a solution to this will pay off in understanding Vegas better, anyway -- it just doesn't make sense that new Vegas would squish the video like that.

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 7/5/2020, 5:23 PM


https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

For both the original and rendered files, please.

EricLNZ wrote on 7/5/2020, 6:37 PM

Assuming it looks stretched in Preview go into the original files Media Properties and in the Media tab alter the Pixel aspect ratio to 1.000 (Square) from the dropdown list.

SkipCustomer wrote on 7/6/2020, 11:26 AM

Gentlemen, thank you for your prompt assistance.

EricLNZ: The weird thing is that I tried altering the pixel aspect ratio for the project properties as well as for the output render, all to no avail -- but your fix worked! I wonder why that is? The original plays just fine, so why would we need to reinterpret or whatever the pixels? If the original, the project, and the render are all 1440 by 1080, why should anything need altering? Bonus points if you can answer that, my clever fellow!

Musicvid: Thank you for showing me how properly to post diagnosable data. I am interested to know from you how I could have used this information to analyze the issue myself, and I hope it is of assistance to others as well. My subsequent reply includes your pertinent data and screenshots, if I can figure out how to post them.

SkipCustomer wrote on 7/6/2020, 11:32 AM

(Yes, I am aware that he accidentally made the file swollen with bit rate!)

Original file data

General
Complete name                  : C:\Users\Public\Videos\Naruto\Baby it's You AMV.wmv
Format                         : Windows Media
File size                      : 220 MiB
Duration                       : 4 min 1 s
Overall bit rate mode          : Constant
Overall bit rate               : 7 636 kb/s
Maximum Overall bit rate       : 24.3 Mb/s
Encoded date                   : UTC 2020-07-03 23:40:34.126

Video
ID                             : 1
Format                         : VC-1
Format profile                 : Main
Codec ID                       : WMV3
Codec ID/Info                  : Windows Media Video 9
Codec ID/Hint                  : WMV3
Description of the codec       : Windows Media Video 9 - Professional
Duration                       : 4 min 1 s
Bit rate mode                  : Constant
Bit rate                       : 24.0 Mb/s
Width                          : 1 440 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 4:3
Frame rate                     : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Compression mode               : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.515
Stream size                    : 690 MiB

Audio
ID                             : 2
Format                         : WMA
Format profile                 : Pro
Codec ID                       : 162
Codec ID/Info                  : Windows Media Audio
Description of the codec       : Windows Media Audio 10 Professional - 128 kbps, 48 kHz, 2 channel 16 bit (A/V) 1-pass CBR
Duration                       : 4 min 1 s
Bit rate mode                  : Constant
Bit rate                       : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                     : 2 channels
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                      : 16 bits
Stream size                    : 3.68 MiB (2%)

 

Vegas render data:

General
Complete name                  : C:\Users\Skip\Videos\#editing\Vegas\Baby It's You redux test.mp4
Format                         : MPEG-4
Format profile                 : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                       : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                      : 105 MiB
Duration                       : 4 min 1 s
Overall bit rate mode          : Variable
Overall bit rate               : 3 656 kb/s
Encoded date                   : UTC 2020-07-06 15:29:45
Tagged date                    : UTC 2020-07-06 15:29:45

Video
ID                             : 2
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : Main@L4
Format settings, CABAC         : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames     : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP           : M=4, N=15
Codec ID                       : avc1
Codec ID/Info                  : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                       : 4 min 1 s
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 3 462 kb/s
Maximum bit rate               : 4 000 kb/s
Width                          : 1 440 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 4:3
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard                       : NTSC
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.074
Stream size                    : 99.6 MiB (95%)
Language                       : English
Encoded date                   : UTC 2020-07-06 15:29:47
Tagged date                    : UTC 2020-07-06 15:29:47
Color range                    : Limited
Color primaries                : BT.709
Transfer characteristics       : BT.709
Matrix coefficients            : BT.709

Audio
ID                             : 1
Format                         : AAC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                 : LC
Codec ID                       : 40
Duration                       : 4 min 1 s
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 192 kb/s
Maximum bit rate               : 403 kb/s
Channel(s)                     : 2 channels
Channel positions              : Front: L R
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                     : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode               : Lossy
Stream size                    : 5.45 MiB (5%)
Language                       : English
Encoded date                   : UTC 2020-07-06 15:29:45
Tagged date                    : UTC 2020-07-06 15:29:45

SkipCustomer wrote on 7/6/2020, 11:38 AM

And, so everyone can follow my problem:

On the left is his original, faithful to the 4:3 tv source material, and on the right is my erroneous render, nominally faithful in being a 4:3 video file but treacherous in having squeezed the original out of shape.

john_dennis wrote on 7/6/2020, 12:16 PM

Do you have the original source files?

Were they Standard Definition (some flavor of 720 x 480, 0.9091 pixel aspect ratio)?

Hint: Unless you're using a camera that shoots 1440 x 1080, I would avoid those pixel dimensions and stick to square pixel dimensions at the dimensions of your source for the output.

Marco. wrote on 7/6/2020, 12:28 PM

"The original is 1440x1080 and my Vegas renders it as stretched into what looks like 16:9 within the 1440x1080 that I required it to produce."

There is no current video standard for 1440x1080 as 4:3. 1440x1080 is 16:9 while it should be paired with a pixel aspect ratio of 1.3333.

Something wrong with your source. It either should not be 1440x1080 or it should not be 4:3.

Musicvid wrote on 7/6/2020, 2:58 PM

Set your Project and Render to 1.0 pixel aspect.

Or just change it in your Media Properties.

.When your source flags do not specify a PAR, Vegas will default to the nearest defined format. I've seen this twice before with WMV, and your Medianfo suggests a similar omission.

Musicvid wrote on 7/6/2020, 4:12 PM

Your MediaInfo for the render indicates it may have been done correctly.

Which raises the question about your second image, the one that is squished.

Is that a screenshot from your player, or from the Vegas Preview?

Width                          : 1 440 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 4:3

Second, have you checked your Project Media Properties for the correct 1.0 PAR, as I suggested? In some cases it needs to be changed to be correct.

 

SkipCustomer wrote on 7/7/2020, 10:07 AM

"The original is 1440x1080 and my Vegas renders it as stretched into what looks like 16:9 within the 1440x1080 that I required it to produce."

There is no current video standard for 1440x1080 as 4:3. 1440x1080 is 16:9 while it should be paired with a pixel aspect ratio of 1.3333.

Something wrong with your source. It either should not be 1440x1080 or it should not be 4:3.


Marco, forgive my ignorance, but I had assumed that, since 1440 in width divided by 1080 in height yields one point three repeating, the aspect ratio would have been 4:3; yet what you seem to be telling me is that even if the visual region of 1440x1080 fits just such a rectangle, that viewing area is displayed within a 16:9 video (which I suppose would be the expected HD of 1920x1080). Is that so? Is that how full HD handles high quality 4:3 viewing?

It sounds as if the problem might not be with my source, as you suggest, but rather with my understanding and definition of the files. Sigh....

SkipCustomer wrote on 7/7/2020, 10:14 AM

Your MediaInfo for the render indicates it may have been done correctly.

Which raises the question about your second image, the one that is squished.

Is that a screenshot from your player, or from the Vegas Preview?

 

Squishy Naruto, as well as his original form, is a Save Image file from Media Player Classic, not from the Vegas Preview window. The Vegas Preview was also stretched long, though not portrayed within a black frame -- at least until I followed EricLNZ's advice of changing to 1.0 the Pixel Aspect Ratio in the original file in Vegas' Media tab. That fix squared up (well, to within 1.3... of a square) both the Preview and the render... the logic of which I still don't understand!

Musicvid wrote on 7/7/2020, 10:33 AM

@SkipCustomer

Regarding your question of Marco, I'd like you to meet the brothers SAR, PAR, and DAR.

@Marco. is saying correctly that the default consumer formats for 1440x1080 are 1.333 PAR, not 1.0. That is a holdover from the HDV tape era.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_aspect_ratio

Once again, go to your Project Media window, right-click on the file, click Properties, and if it says 1.333, change it to 1.0. Or, as I said, these can be changed in the Project and Render properties. If you still have problems, you should upload an original media sample to Drive or Dropbox. Thanks.

SkipCustomer wrote on 7/7/2020, 10:42 AM

Do you have the original source files?

Were they Standard Definition (some flavor of 720 x 480, 0.9091 pixel aspect ratio)?

Hint: Unless you're using a camera that shoots 1440 x 1080, I would avoid those pixel dimensions and stick to square pixel dimensions at the dimensions of your source for the output.

Well, yes, sir, we do have the original video and image files that my son used to compose this WMV, and they are uniformly of standard definition aspect ratio -- although the actual sizes vary, such as a 1024x768 mp4

I... I have no idea how to discern the pixel aspect ratio, though, either from the Windows OS Properties details tab or from the MPC-generated properties files such as I posted above!

Musicvid wrote on 7/7/2020, 11:03 AM

As was pointed out, this information is usually in the MediaInfo report, such as you provided.

Width                          : 1 440 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 4:3

As you will recall, 4:3 = 4/3 = 1.333 DAR

(1440/1080) / (4/3) = 1.0 PAR

Marco. wrote on 7/7/2020, 3:12 PM

@SkipCustomer
I was mistakenly thinking there is no 1440x1080 4:3 HD video standard. But I now see there is.

Musicvid wrote on 7/7/2020, 3:21 PM

This is the first time I recall seeing it in the wild.

;?)

Marco. wrote on 7/7/2020, 3:35 PM

Me too. I always took 1440 x 1080 as HDV only with a PAR of 1.3333 only.

Musicvid wrote on 7/7/2020, 5:55 PM

I think his son had some 4:3 video that he wanted "enlarged" to HD, but I'm actually supportive because he at least got the ratio math right. As does Jeff Foxworthy.

;?)