Wedding Video Gear Advise

crown2020 wrote on 5/3/2022, 8:04 PM

Hi guys.

I have made a recent promise to video, (in 4k), a very special young ladies wedding. There is a slight issue. I have NO gear! I would welcome advise on a video recorder. I have been looking for several years now to purchase one. They already have a two person camera crew booked for like 6 hours. The video is a bonus for them. I still want it to be a nice quality video regardless.

I am partial to Sony but not stuck on Sony. I would want the ability to add multiple recorders at a later date. A good mic onboard the recorder will be a must. I will not have the ability to connect the recorder to a sound board, etc, directly. I would need enough battery power to run 8-10 hours as they are requesting I film the reception as well. As far as storage, would this card get me around 8 hours of storage? : https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-400GB-Extreme-microSD-Adapter/dp/B07FCQRN9K

I know the speed of the card is important, but what about redundancy? Are there camera systems out there that can record 2 SD cards at the same time?

Do some of you pro's use a good quality tri-pod when filming the actual ceremony? Is a Manfrotto fluid base or fluid head helpfull?

I welcome any and all helpful feedback. I thank each of you in advance for your time.

Comments

Dexcon wrote on 5/3/2022, 9:11 PM

One very important bit of information is missing - what is your budget? Are you seeking entry level consumer equipment or looking for equipment at the semi-pro level?

And a primary consideration is whether you are thinking of getting a camcorder or an SLR still camera with video capability.

In the camcorder field mid-level price range, have a look at Sony's FDR-AX700 4K HDR camcorder - it has dual memory card slots. Please refer to that camera's user manual for information about what memory cards are recommended depending on the recording format selected as well as recording time. With that in mind, it's best IMO to consider the memory card options after you've short-listed the camera choices.

I've got the FDR-AX700's predecessor - the FDR-AX100 - the inbuilt microphone is okay but sound quality can be significantly improved by using an on camera microphone something like the Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro but there are lots of other options from Rode and other companies such as Sennheiser. Or if you want super directional sound, then Sennheiser's MKE600 shotgun microphone could be an option - but it is mono.

Both microphones require a battery: a 9V battery with the Rode and an 1.5V AA for the Sennheiser.

 I would need enough battery power to run 8-10 hours 

That's a big ask. Battery life on a camcorder is affected by things like whether or not the LCD monitor is used. Even with not using the LCD monitor, I've never got anywhere near 8 to 10 hours recording time with an NP-FV70 battery that comes standard with both the AX100 and AX700 cameras. Having spare batteries is the usual alternative in this case - as well as perhaps a recharger which will probably be from a 3rd party accessory company.

If you have a healthy budget, a decent quality tripod with a fluid head would be useful so as to avoid 8 to 10 hours of handheld wobble video.

Last changed by Dexcon on 5/3/2022, 9:16 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.5, BCC 2023.5, Mocha Pro 2023, Ignite Pro, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX10 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

Dexcon wrote on 5/4/2022, 6:45 AM

I should have mentioned that some Sony cameras - including the AX100 and AX700 - have a Sony proprietary interface hot shoe on top of the camera. Sony's interface shoe is not compatible with industry standard cold shoes. A shoe adapter I got years ago works to a limit but has a habit of fairly easily slipping out of Sony's shoe - which is far from ideal. I found on Amazon a bracket designed for the AX100 which screws on to the camera via the camera's base mounting screw.

The top of the bracket has a cold shoe track which allows a cold shoe fitting on a microphone or other to be slid and tightened at a chosen position - a great feature when using a shotgun microphone when it needs to be aimed but kept out of shot when the zoom lens is wide. And the screw holes on the side of the bracket allow for cold shoe mounts with screws at their base - like this:

... to be mounted onto the bracket if needed.

Last changed by Dexcon on 5/4/2022, 8:22 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.5, BCC 2023.5, Mocha Pro 2023, Ignite Pro, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX10 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

Musicvid wrote on 5/4/2022, 8:30 AM

The equipment you procure is less important than the experience you will gain on this event. Rent something and see if you like it. Practice much before the event.

crown2020 wrote on 10/28/2022, 11:58 PM

@Dexcon, It's almost time for the Wedding. I wanted to get your thoughts on this gear. Others are free to "Render" your thoughts as well. No pun intended. 😂 Here are a few pics of the gear:

Thanks to all, in advance, for your time.

Dexcon wrote on 10/29/2022, 2:01 AM

@crown2020  ... You've done a lot of research which is great.

Recent comparison camera reviews I've read recently (such as but not limited to https://photographypx.com/best-professional-video-cameras/) rate the AX700 well. Note; the linked reviews states the camera can record 5.1 audio (rears are more than likely synthelsized from the FL, C & FR microphones) but if the AX700 follows AX100 behaviour, 5.1 may not be available when recording 4K - only stereo.

The cold show adapter is a very good idea because the one-and-only shoe on the AX700 (like the AX100) is a Sony proprietary. But there is unfortunately a but: Sony's hot shoe is not very good. Even Sony's own hot shoe microphone accessory can come loose all too easily even when tightly (but not overly) tightened. I've got one of the adapter's that you've itemised and the same thing happens with that as well. What I ended up doing years ago was to buy from B&H Photo in NYC a wrap-around bracket specifically designed for the AX100 - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1197471-REG/dm_accessories_wamx00_wrap_around_mount.html

I don't know whether or not this bracket would fit on an AX700 because the AX700 is a larger camera that the AX100.

The bracket attaches to the camera's base plate and can still be attached to a tripod. The lengthy cold mounting shoe is terrific because a small shotgun can be mounted at the rear of the shoe to help avoid the mic getting in shot. The two screw holed on the side of the bracket allows for 2 other screw on cold shoes (like I showed in an earlier comment). The Rode mic mounts easily on the lengthy cold shoe:

Having used the Rode mic with it's optional 'dead kitten' https://rode.com/en/accessories/windshields/deadkitten mainly outdoors in Europe back in June/July this year, I have been impressed how much wind noise was eliminated unless, of course, if the wind was qusty or more. Two things about the Rode microphone: 1/ it operates with a 9V battery (which hasn't needed replacement yet) but its easy to forget to turn the mic on and off. If its off when video recording, there is no audio recorded because plugging in the mic to the camera disables the camera's own inbuilt mic; and 2/ the rear of the Rode mic has a tendency to part ways with the rear mount on the Rycote shock mount. I've only in the last week super-glued the rear of the mic to the shock mount. My camera use was all handheld so that problem may not happen on a tripod mounted camera.

Re the Sandisk 512GB Extreme Pro memory card, make sure that the AX700 can make use of 512GB. The camera's user manual at page 24 shows recording time up to a 256GB memory card. The max for the AX100 is 64GB but I've not tried a 128GB card to see if that would work - simply because I don't have that sized memory card larger than 64GB.

The FV100 batteries and charger are a great idea. Keep in mind that the FV100 batteris are much larger in depth that the standard included FV70 battery. This may mean that the larger depth battery may make it more difficult to use the viewfinder without tilting the viewfinder upwards. I had that happen a long time ago with a Panasonic MiniDV camera with a larger capacity battery installed. But the camera's monitor can still be used.

Others may be able to comment on the Manfrotto tripod though needless to say that Manfrotto is a well regarded equipment manufacturer and, suffice to say, a good fluid head is essential.

Others will no doubt be able to comment about the wireless microphone - I've not used them.

Again, others will be better placed to comment on the audio side of things, but the Saramonic audio interface mixes the audio from 2 microphones and records that mix on the camera's memory card - it would be very difficult or next to impossible to 'unmix' the camera's combined audio later on. With the current set up, you'd not only be operating the camera but simultaneously trying to follow audio levels between the 2 to 3 microphones. Even though it's another piece of equipment to turn on and off, perhaps consider recording the wireless microphone to something like a Tascam portable audio recorder - https://tascam.com/int/product/dr-05x/spec. Other brands also have similar products. But it looks like that the Rode Go IIs have internal recording with combined or separate channel recording so the above may approach not be necessary but would provide good back up.

With separate audio recordings, you'll be able to perform an audio mix in Vegas Pro the only possible difficulty being getting sync on the timeline, but then you'd have the camera audio that could likely become a guide track assuming that the camera is not a long way from the people speaking which may cause a sound delay due to distance and location acoustics.

Apologies for repeating some of the points made earlier this year but I hope that the above helps ... and all the best for your exciting new project.

Last changed by Dexcon on 10/29/2022, 3:35 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.5, BCC 2023.5, Mocha Pro 2023, Ignite Pro, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX10 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

crown2020 wrote on 11/2/2022, 3:32 PM

@Dexcon, Thank you for your follow up. If I may, I will now follow up to some of your comments.

"the linked reviews states the camera can record 5.1 audio"

This review is incorrect: https://photographypx.com/best-professional-video-cameras/

This question was asked 4 years ago by a Best Buy Customer. This response was correct:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/questions/sony-handycam-fdr-ax700-4k-premium-camcorder-black/6130907

I spoke with Sony. They also advised that the camera can not do 5.1 Audio. That information can be found here:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/memory-camcorders-fdr-ax-series/fdr-ax700/specifications

It will be under "AUDIO RECORDING FORMAT", about halfway of the page, and on the right side of the screen.

I sent an oops email to Photography PX, (aimed Devaun Lennox). They should forward the error to him for correction. That said, he really does have some great reviews.

"Sony's hot shoe is not very good"

Thank you for this need to know. I have purchased the same bracket you have. If it will not fit, (holes lining up), I will modify the bracket to make it fit. I have spoken with the owner at DM Accessories. He made that bracket you have. He thinks it will work. If it does not, he will consider making mods for the AX700 product line. He really is a nice guy. I can't say that for most northerners I have spoken to in the past. At present, the bracket is only sold through B and H and his site. He is considering adding it to Amazon. That bracket and MANY other accessories can be found here: https://shop.dm-accessories.com/

"Even Sony's own hot shoe microphone accessory can come loose"

I was wondering about this as well. Thank you for the information.

"I've got one of the adapter's that you've itemised and the same thing happens with that as well"

Amazon was kind and refunded my money.

"The lengthy cold mounting shoe is terrific"

I agree. However, it's still not long enough to hold my Zoom H4n Pro that I decided to go with AND the Rhode Stereo mic. To fix this issue, (and hopefully keep it all of of shot), I purchased this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1071397-REG/vello_se_400_12_cold_shoe_extension.html

" The two screw holed on the side of the bracket allows for 2 other screw on cold shoes"

I plan to use one of those two holes to mount the Rhode wireless receiver using these parts from B and H.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/997272-REG/impact_ca_110_1_4_20_to_1_4_20_adapter.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/828816-REG/Vello_CS_20_Cold_Shoe_Mount.html

"Two things about the Rode microphone: 1/ it operates with a 9V battery (which hasn't needed replacement yet)"

This is great news for any camera operator. Before I bought this, I had read that other users had the same great experience with the battery life of the Rode Stereo VideoMic, Pro Rycote, Camera-mount.

"If its off when video recording, there is no audio recorded because plugging in the mic to the camera disables the camera's own inbuilt mic"

I was wondering about this. Thanks for confirming my suspicions that plugging in anything to the mic input on the camera disabled the onboard cameras mic. (Sony FX700).

** I suspect this is the default behavior of most cameras and DSLRs? Is there such equipment having settings to allow recording to both the plugged in device, AND the camera, to your knowledge?

"the rear of the Rode mic has a tendency to part ways with the rear mount on the Rycote shock mount".

Thanks for the warning. That could cause all kinds of issues in post.

"I've only in the last week super-glued the rear of the mic to the shock mount"

It works: https://www.jbweld.com/product/superweld-light-activated

"My camera use was all handheld so that problem may not happen on a tripod mounted camera."

Mine will be used off and on the tripod.

"make sure that the AX700 can make use of 512GB"

Thanks for pointing this out. I was worried until I found this video:

At about 4:00 of this video is GREAT news.

"This may mean that the larger depth battery may make it more difficult to use the viewfinder without tilting the viewfinder upwards."

** Do most people just use the camera LCD screen?

The battery does not seem to bother me with the  FV100 battery installed, (and the view finder is pulled straight out). I can't think of a situation, off hand, that I would need to point it towards the sky. Here is a collage pic, with two views, of the FV100 battery installed and the eye cup:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4d3zco2x3d5v95/20221102_140235-COLLAGE-min.jpg?dl=0

I suppose it COULD be an issue for some users not using the eye cup. I intend to use the eye cup.

" Manfrotto is a well regarded equipment manufacturer and, suffice to say, a good fluid head is essential."

I definitely wanted smooth pan operations (left to right, up and down). I'm not sure if I spent to much on this tripod and fluid head or not. No one in my area had one to rent. I'm feeling a little buyers remorse. I'll report back when I have an opportunity to use it. The reviews looked great.

"about the wireless microphone"

I know someone that has used these. He says there good. I'll soon have my own opinion. I'll report back.

" the Saramonic audio interface"

File 13 (trashed the idea). I did not purchase it. I agree that the audio signals need to be seperated. Thank you for pointing this out. If you suggested nothing else, this was a biggie.

"consider recording the wireless microphone to something like a Tascam portable audio recorder"

I agree. For it's ability to recorded Stereo on two seperate channels, I chose this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R7YWJ75?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

By using this Zoom recorder, not only can I recorded the Rhode wireless lavalier mic, I'll also get the audio around me.

Yes, one of the reasons I chose the Rhode 2 system was that onboard backed up audio. Now I'll have 2 copies of, in my case, (the soon to be), marriage vows. I guess I would have 3 copies if the front mics on this Zoom H4n Pro work well. Obviously, I am not counting on them for this very important part of the marriage ceremony.

"you'd have the camera audio that could likely become a guide track assuming that the camera is not a long way from the people speaking"

I would welcome Rhode to expand on the Go 2, making it 32bit capture rather than 24bit. Same goes for the Zoom h4n Pro. I hear that a 32bit capture is better for adjusting loud sounds, (clipping), in post. Likewise, soft sounding audio can also be "boosted" better, in post, (I hear).

"Apologies for repeating some of the points"

No worries. Your thoughts and comments were appreciated. I am extremely glad I have not been 100% on my own for these critical decisions.

I look forward to any additional comments you may have as well as any comments others wish to make.

Dexcon wrote on 11/9/2022, 5:10 AM

@crown2020  ... It's great to see that you are refining your equipment choices to meet your project's needs.

Audio bit rate between 24 and 32 bits: For many years, there have been 2 schools of thought about bit rate differences, one being that a higher bit rate is always better and the other being that the difference is so subtle that the advantages of the higher bit rate is largely hype. IMO, the technical limitations of the microphones being used will create audio problems long before a 32 v 24 bits rate issue will - unless the microphones are top of the range costing $1,000s each. In any event, clipping can easily be addressed by using a declip plugin. And then is the render format of the final video going to be able to use 32 bits and is the destination audio system going to be able to take advantage of 32 bits (e.g. a high-end audio system versus a TV or computer speaker)? And keep in mind that it seems that the FDR-AX700's audio bit rate is 16 bits - as is also the case with the AX100..

The AX700 doesn't have 5.1 - not a big loss as its only synthesised 5.1 (the rears) and anyway all the other microphones are not 5.1.

Re using a larger sized memory card than recommended: I've tested a Sandisk Extreme 256GB micro card in a caddy in my AX100. Set to record in one hit, the AX100 recorded and filled the card (about 6 hours) and it played back fine in Vegas Pro 20. But after reformatting the card, I then recorded over 2 days for short to long periods. This is where problems arose. Sometimes when hitting the record button again, the AX100 came up with a warning that it had to check a status (I can't remember the exact term) and refused to start recording again. The only way to get around this was to turn the camera off for 5 minutes or so and, on restarting the camera, recording was available again. What was recorded seems to play back well in Vegas Pro, but I'm just not going to trust cards larger than 64GB (the recommended max size) in the camera because having to wait 5 mins or so before being able to record again with a larger card is not really a great option ("I would've got a great shot of the flying saucer landing, but I had to wait for the camera to reset itself to record again so I missed the moment").

 

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.5, BCC 2023.5, Mocha Pro 2023, Ignite Pro, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX10 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

crown2020 wrote on 11/9/2022, 11:57 AM

@Dexcon, Thanks for the follow up information. I will preform additional testing of start and stop recording on my AX700 using the larger cards.

The "extended life" batteries I purchased seem to cause an issue with files being written to the card(s). The factory included battery does not have this issue. I'll explain. I tried to record continuous with the "extended life" batteries. When the batteries died, I had NO file. When the FACTORY battery died, (that did not have "extended life"), I HAD a file. I was testing to see how long the batteries would go. That's how I discovered the issue. Any thoughts?