Bad quality with darker colors

Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 5:30 AM

I want to make a video in which I have to show a map at one point. The picture of this map has a good quality when I open it as an image (2000 x 1552), but when I put it in the video and render it, the areas with darker colors have a worse resolution than areas with lighter colors. How can I fix this? (The darker colors on the map are dark blue and red.)

Comments

Red Prince wrote on 5/24/2018, 9:27 AM

What resolution is your project (as in 1920x1080, for example)? It can just be an artifact of downsampling the image.

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

OldSmoke wrote on 5/24/2018, 9:42 AM

I would think it's a Studio vs Computer RGB issue.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
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PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 10:08 AM

What resolution is your project (as in 1920x1080, for example)? It can just be an artifact of downsampling the image.

The resolution is 2560x1920 (I have to play the video on a large screen)

Red Prince wrote on 5/24/2018, 10:17 AM

The resolution is 2560x1920 (I have to play the video on a large screen)

In that case, I would agree with OldSmoke.

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 11:55 AM

What could I do to improve the resolution then? I already tried the 'Computer to RGB to Studio RGB' preset, but it doesn't work. Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I have never had an issue like this before and don't know much about RGB.

Red Prince wrote on 5/24/2018, 12:33 PM

Are you using 8 bits, 32 bits video levels, 32 bits full-range level? And if the latter, is the view transform off or is it set to something else (that would really mess you up when using regular static bitmaps!)? Pressing Alt-Enter in Vegas will pop up that information.

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

OldSmoke wrote on 5/24/2018, 12:45 PM

Can you upload a picture so that we can try it?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 12:48 PM

Are you using 8 bits, 32 bits video levels, 32 bits full-range level? And if the latter, is the view transform off or is it set to something else (that would really mess you up when using regular static bitmaps!)? Pressing Alt-Enter in Vegas will pop up that information.

I am using 8 bits.

Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 1:11 PM

That's the image.

OldSmoke wrote on 5/24/2018, 1:26 PM

That's the image.

It would be better to upload to a cloud service like Dropbox, OneDrive and so on, the forum software seems to screw it up.

I am Austrian by the way.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Red Prince wrote on 5/24/2018, 1:35 PM

I see no difference in the preview. But to see what you see, how exactly are you rendering it (what format, bit rate, frame rate, etc)? Also what version of Vegas?

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

OldSmoke wrote on 5/24/2018, 1:45 PM

I see no difference in the preview. But to see what you see, how exactly are you rendering it (what format, bit rate, frame rate, etc)? Also what version of Vegas?

I got the same result, no difference but I applied a "Computer to Studio RGB" and rendered it with MC AVC.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Red Prince wrote on 5/24/2018, 1:53 PM

I am Austrian by the way.

Slovak here. 😉

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 2:17 PM

Okay, so I tried different rendering options and got a very good result with Sony AVC/MVC (Internet 1920x1080-30p). The words on blue background still aren't as sharp as the others, but the difference is very small. I still wonder why this is the case though. I also applied Computer to Studio RGB and I am using Sony Vegas Pro 14. Also, I am German (as you might have guessed :) ).

Musicvid wrote on 5/24/2018, 2:48 PM

Problems I can see:

-- Image is RGB, so yes, it needs Studio RGB filter to render.

-- Pure red is a very messy color for 4:2:0 chroma subsampling, and will render far below  blue and green pixel depth and ruin the text edges. Since you will undoubtedly be delivering 8 bit 4:2:0 to your clients, the solution will be to use Vegas' secondary Color Corrector to replace red Germany with a nice safe green or cyan, or at least less red!

-- If there is any pan/zoom/ fade/motion at all on the map sequence, choose an encoder where you can set the minimum bitrate, which should be high, around 30% of your average bitrate, or use constant bitrate, which is costly in terms of file size.

-- Since your display is slightly larger than your image, leave it at original 2000x1552 inside the 2560x1920 canvas with black borders all the way around. Zooming to fill the display will make it softer, not more readable.

-- Add a Sharpen filter set to 0 on the still event. Sounds counterintuitive, but the type font edges will perk right up.

-- Vegas' encoders are optimized for camera footage, not generated images, which are awash in primary colors. The Animation Tune in Handbrake may give a better result in those dark colors by eliminating noise filtering, but again use Vbr with the Average and Maximum bitrates set close to each other, so the minimum bitrate is effectively at a higher value.

If you follow all of these suggestions I promise improvement, but probably not perfection.

 

john_dennis wrote on 5/24/2018, 3:03 PM

Also, in Project Properties ensure that Full Resolution Rendering Quality is set to Best.

Musicvid wrote on 5/24/2018, 3:28 PM

Also, in Project Properties ensure that Full Resolution Rendering Quality is set to Best.

Oh yes, that too.

 

Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 4:01 PM

Since you will undoubtedly be delivering 8 bit 4:2:0 to your clients, the solution will be to use Vegas' secondary Color Corrector to replace red Germany with a nice safe green or cyan, or at least less red!

Thank you for your suggestions, I already tried using the secondary Color Corrector to change the color of Germany. However, when I select the effect range, it does not recognize any color I click on. Do you have any idea what I am doing wrong?

john_dennis wrote on 5/24/2018, 4:03 PM

"The resolution is 2560x1920 (I have to play the video on a large screen)"

I'm not a world traveler, but that seems an odd native resolution for a projector. 2560 x 1440 might be more common.

Is this any better than your result?

fifonik wrote on 5/24/2018, 4:35 PM

when I put it in the video and render it, the areas with darker colors have a worse resolution

Are these areas have something like squares on them?

What encoder do you use?

Could you provide a screenshot with the issue?

 

P.S. Looks like encoder issue similar to the one I faced with Mainconcept/Magix AVC

Last changed by fifonik on 5/24/2018, 4:38 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 4:40 PM

"The resolution is 2560x1920 (I have to play the video on a large screen)"

I'm not a world traveler, but that seems an odd native resolution for a projector. 2560 x 1440 might be more common.

I know, but that is the size I was told to work with.

Is this any better than your result?

No, it is almost the same as mine.

Musicvid wrote on 5/24/2018, 5:11 PM

Charly, if the project size is larger than the image, keep your image at exactly 2000x1552 with black borders to avoid destructive upscaling.

Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 5:16 PM

Are these areas have something like squares on them?

What encoder do you use?

Could you provide a screenshot with the issue?

That's as sharp as I could get it, I used Sony AVC/MVC. I know that that you don't really notice the difference unless you look closely, but it is bothering me anyway.

Charly wrote on 5/24/2018, 5:43 PM

Charly, if the project size is larger than the image, keep your image at exactly 2000x1552 with black borders to avoid destructive upscaling.

I do, but it doesn't fix the slightly blurred letters. I tried to use the secondary Color Corrector, which does not let me select the effect range for some reason. The letters are as sharp as they should be when I change the colors though.