Bit rate question, concerning the end recipient of video stream

don-c wrote on 8/20/2020, 2:45 PM

We teach online classes many of which are third world nations. They email us and say many get hammered on data rates $ and so they are limited to how much they can stream. Our lessons are free but their streaming is not.

I do not really understand bit rate on their end of the issue.

Question: I rendered one file 2 times 5000 KB/s one 1080 and one 720. I thought the 720 would be substantially smaller, NOT!
1080 = 1,273,150 KB
720 = 1,195,947 KB
I concluded frame size is not so much their problem.
So I assume then I need to reduce 5000KB/s ? Yes/No?
If that is the case to maintain as much quality as possible should I use 1080 with Lower KB/s or reduced KB/s and 720 . Will lowering the KB/s lower their data consumption?
We use black & white boards for teaching so we need video as clear as possible.
Or is there another way to "skin the cat" with lower data rate and as good of quality, knowing many of these people will not have the latest and greatest technology available

Thank You
dc

 

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 8/20/2020, 3:18 PM

@don-c

Memorize this and follow the author.

https://tubularinsights.com/secret-encoding-web-video/

HOS or Voukoder may give you tighter control over the bits/pixel*frame.

Musicvid wrote on 8/20/2020, 3:20 PM

The bitrate is independent of the dimensions. It is expressed in Kilobits per Second or Megabits per second.

The relationship is exactly this:

File size (MegaBytes) = Bitrate (Mbps) x Time (Seconds) x .125

You can see that Resolution is not a factor.

At the same Bitrate, different resolutions will display different quality accordingly. That's where your own tests are the only determinant. Experiment. A lot.

x264 is the most compact encoder practical for your resolutions.

Former user wrote on 8/20/2020, 7:35 PM


So I assume then I need to reduce 5000KB/s ? Yes/No?
If that is the case to maintain as much quality as possible should I use 1080 with Lower KB/s or reduced KB/s and 720 . Will lowering the KB/s lower their data consumption?
We use black & white boards for teaching so we need video as clear as possible.
 

I had a look at a random videos on YouTube just then AVC 1080P30. trump at a news conference Video1700kbit/s, something with a lot of movement was 2700kbit/s. Try 2500kbit/s perhaps at 1080p30 and see how that looks. I would keep the 1080p as it makes a big difference when reading the screen. Ideally you'd use voukoder for encoding as it can encode based on quality rather than bitrate, and for something like a classroom setting with a whiteboad it may set the bitrate quite low. For quality settings, try CQ 24 and keep going up if bitrates are too high for what you'd like. This is not an encode to be further compressed by an encoder this is the final encode that you'll be streaming or sending and the recipient will see. You are aiming for acceptable quality (eg youtube quality)

 

Musicvid wrote on 8/22/2020, 9:52 PM

Or is there another way to "skin the cat" with lower data rate and as good of quality,

Yes. I have spent much of this year investigating that, and exploring deep-state compression techniques, while maintaing very good quality and preventing peak rates from causing hiccups and stutters at the viewing end.

If your lessons are all more or less "the same" in terms of motion and complexity, I'll be glad to give you some optimized starting points, using x264 HD, which is universally playable. Send me a couple of ProRes or XAVC-S or XDCAM-EX masters via Drive or Dropbox, and I'll send you some suggested render proofs and the optimal x264 params.

Former user wrote on 8/22/2020, 10:40 PM

Or is there another way to "skin the cat" with lower data rate and as good of quality,

Yes. I have spent much of this year investigating that, and exploring deep-state compression techniques, while maintaing very good quality and preventing peak rates from causing hiccups and stutters at the viewing end.

If your lessons are all more or less "the same" in terms of motion and complexity, I'll be glad to give you some optimized starting points, using x264 HD,

Yes it's been my experience, x264 at low bitrates self destructs at same bitrates where NVENC still looks acceptable. You need to contain the peak bitrates.

This is how Instagram does it

  • cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=8 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=24.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=2912 / vbv_bufsize=5825 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=2:1.00

And this is how TIkTok does it. Both are aiming for the best compromise between lowest bitrate and highest quality for that low bitrate. IG chooses crf24

  • cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=30 / lookahead_threads=5 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=29.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=4000 / vbv_bufsize=8000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
don-c wrote on 8/22/2020, 11:40 PM

Thank All of you for the Help. Greatly Appreciated!

Vincent-Mesman wrote on 8/23/2020, 1:57 AM

To reduce bitrate much more, it would be wise to use a tripod and a DNR video filter.

The reason is simple: if nothing moves, and all visual noise is suppressed 100%, the encoder has nothing to update. In many cases I've reached bitrates far below 1000 Kilo bit (not byte) per second with 1080p25 video. And they looked really good.

I don't know how noise reduction is in Vegas 18 but I have very good results with the DNR filter in BMD Resolve.

Btw a Dynamic Noise Reduction filter compares each frame with surrounding frames. Processing takes some time but the results are superior.