My Vegas Pro 14 project was rendered for output online and it looks great. But when I make a Blu Ray, the contrast is very high and it has a bad red/orange cast. I assume this has something to do with the difference between computer monitor color and television color?
I did the Blu Ray renter in Sony AVC.
Should I re-render and change the "color space" in the PROJECT tab in "Custom Settings" ? There are a lot of options here if that's the ticket.
Apply the ComputerRGB>StudioRGB filter to the Vegas output FX; this advice gets repeated about twice a day around here...
DO NOT CHANGE THE TEMPLATE COLOR SPACE SETTINGS.
Hey, thanks so much. I figured out where the output FX are and found ComputerRGB to StudioRGB preset. I rendered again and that fixed the shadows and the color is better but the highlights still seem blown out. Any ideas? I'm spending days on a project that should have taken an hour or less.
the highlights still seem blown out
You will never see the same levels in the Vegas preview and the video output.
Post identical screen grabs from your source and output as they appear in a PLAYER, not the Vegas or DVDA PREVIEW, with the filter applied. What you just described seems very unusual.
You will never see the same levels in the preview and the output.
Post identical screen grabs from your source and output as they appear in a player. There is nothing other than wrong settings that can cause what you just described, which is kinda strange.
The more I look at the latest image on the television via Blu Ray, I'd say the whole thing is too light as opposed to just highlights blown.
Not sure how to get a "screen grab" from my "player." You mean the image on my TV?
Here's this.
Oh, so you want to edit your video on your computer and have it look the same on your teevee from a bluray disc?
Ain't gonna happen. But you can come closer if one of your friends owns a Spyder to help you calibrate the screens.
Your levels are fine. They have been since you added the required filter. I can't help you with the rest. Best.
Don't forget to turn on the Videoscopes (View>Window>Video Scopes), and set it to show Waveform. Avoid having important color outside 0-100%
Hey, thanks so much. I figured out where the output FX are and found ComputerRGB to StudioRGB preset. I rendered again and that fixed the shadows and the color is better but the highlights still seem blown out. Any ideas? I'm spending days on a project that should have taken an hour or less.
There are no shortcuts to getting your video scopes open, understanding the levels your camera shoots, and adjusting the luminance with the Levels FX or Color Curves FX. There's some help in this comment and reading that whole thread might help you, although MikeLV's footage was a special case because of the bright window. In my postings there, "Blu-ray" is interchangeable with "YouTube"; the levels of your footage usually end up nominally the same at delivery on either platform (notwithstanding the ridiculous things that modern TVs will do to it).
If you upload some sample clips to Dropbox/Google Drive/OneDrive/mega.nz/wetransfer.com/mediafire.com I could show you what I would do with it.
I connected one of my televisions directly to my video card via HDMI and am using it now as a preview monitor. With OUTPUT FX set to Computer RGB to Studio RGB, the image on the television looks great. But when I render to Sony AVC and burn a Blu Ray, the Blu Ray playback on the same television looks bad. Highlights are blown out. What am I missing?
Highlights are blown out. What am I missing?
You have just introduced 16 more things that can go wrong, that's what you are missing. Do you remember we said that Vegas Preview and Render Levels are different? I suspect you have no idea what you are getting yourself into.
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/pc-to-tv-levels-a-comedy-of-errors--107325/
Once you understand that there is more to this than we want to admit, read the second post in that same thread, offered by ushere, another seasoned expert:
unfortunately, there's still a lot of people who eyeball their cc'ing on uncalibrated monitors and then wonder WTF!?
Nick and set have offered you the best professional advice available. I offered you a bandaid.
They all work, but adjusting your render levels to play on a mismatched TV screen is just putting mascara on a pig.
If you really want to get help here troubleshooting your homebrew setups, at least try the professional advice first. Its only fair.
Oh, the "Geek Guys" at your local bigbox retailer won't know a thing about correctly calibrating your TV. They are only paid to make it look unnatural.
I tend to correct the levels to studio RGB on the timeline as I work. If you look through the following screen captures of the video scopes and preview you'll find a common theme for many different types of delivery channels.
An early commercial DVD. I think this one was bundled with my first DVD player.
A documentary about the river in my childhood hometown. I bought the Blu-ray from the videographer in Georgia.
An ATSC NBC network broadcast that I time-shifted last Sunday morning.
A Blu-ray disc that I made for one of these swimmers.
One of my recent youtube uploads.
...But when I render to Sony AVC and burn a Blu Ray, the Blu Ray playback on the same television looks bad. Highlights are blown out. What am I missing?
An early commercial DVD. I think this one was bundled with my first DVD player.
Oh Kim... ❤️❤️ Nice freebie 👍
Thanks for your guidance. I read your links and I think I understand most of it.
I have a television connected to my video card via HDMI. I did this: Options menu > Preferences > Preview Device > check "Adjust levels from studio RGB to computer RGB." So this presumably should give me a ball park idea of the finished product as it will appear on my clients television?
I also added a video output FX and selected the Computer RGB to Studio RGB preset. I see I can even tweak my settings here by watching my scopes and my preview monitor (television). My histograms show levels within 16 and 255. The image on the TV looks great. So, the histogram looks great. The tv image looks great. But when I render and make a Blu Ray played on a Blu Ray player connected to the same TV, the image looks WAY different. Way bad. We aren't talking subtle. It would be unacceptable to the most casual client.
I think I could figure this out if there was a way to see what I was going to get before the actual burning process. I've made a pile of trash Blu Rays.
Something else I tried: I took the Sony AVC file, double clicked and played it on both my computer monitor and television, and again, it looks great. If I take that same file and burn it to Blu Ray, it looks horrible.
Here's the online version - https://vimeo.com/230077688 - knowing what I know now about RGB Studio vs Computer, I'd bring the highlights and shadows in a bit. But I'm telling you, if I could get the BluRay to look even this good, I'd be thrilled. But all the burns look terrible. Even the color looks weird in certain clips - flesh tones that are slightly red on my online version or timeline, look exaggerated red in the Blu Ray. I deliver all my work online and in this case, the bride's mom paid me for a couple Blu Rays which I thought I could knock out in no time. As it is, I've spend hours and hours rendering, re-rendering, burning checking, reading, posting... And I need to get this out for Christmas.
I think you missed one important fact - -
There is NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER between the levels of your Vegas-rendered file and the file on your bluray disc. I even invited you to test this for yourself.
Your problem is downstream. Hardware settings are suspect. Vegas' role in any of this ended the instant your burned disc was ejected.
I think you missed one important fact - -
There is NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER between the levels of your Vegas-rendered file and the BluRay file on your disc.
Your problem is downstream. Vegas' role in any of this ended the instant your burned disc was ejected.
Having established this, I have to question what your peer expectations are.
So since I'm previewing in Vegas on the same TV that I'm playing the disc, are you suggesting the issue is the Blu Ray player itself?
are you suggesting the issue is the Blu Ray player itself?
How would I possibly know anything like that?
Graphics card settings, Preview settings, BluRay player settings, teevee settings, start wherever you like. My usefulness here is done, because I'm not sitting at your computer.
Calibrate your teevee and monitor.
Eschew magical thinking.
My solution as suggested by everyone, @john_dennis in particular, was to go through the timeline and adjust the Color Curve for each and every clip to ensure they are between 16-235 (YUV). I assume this is preferred over simply using the Computer RGB to Studio RGB output FX. I think I have a pretty decent product for my client.
So, my take away points as I've read up on this issue are the following:
Am I correct on these?
I usually put the Color Curve filter on the track. My camera shoots 000-255 and generated titles come in at 000-255. Sometimes, I can get away with that, but sometimes problem events on the track get additional filters of their own. I’ve told all my children and grandchildren “don’t do what I do”.
I assume this is preferred over simply using the Computer RGB to Studio RGB output FX.
Yes, I offered you the soccer-mom solution.
1. Other NLEs work in YUV, but Vegas works in RGB.
2. Therefore when outputting to YouTube or Television (Blu Ray or DVD), color grade to 16-235.
3. When outputting for Vimeo or Facebook, use full 0-255 when grading.
4. Get my monitor calibrated.
Am I correct on these?
1. Substitute the word "Some" for "Other."
2. Yes.
3. Don't know about that one. Has it been tested? Has Vimeo changed?
4. At the end of your sentence, add the word "first."
3. Here is a video that was uploaded to Vimeo in the range 016-235. Test and comment.
...My solution as suggested by everyone, @john_dennis in particular, was to go through the timeline and adjust the Color Curve for each and every clip to ensure they are between 16-235 (YUV). I assume this is preferred over simply using the Computer RGB to Studio RGB output FX...
You should be able to come up with a preset or two that is good for most clips from the same camera.
- Therefore when outputting to YouTube or Television (Blu Ray or DVD), color grade to 16-235.
- When outputting for Vimeo or Facebook, use full 0-255 when grading.
It's the first I've heard that Vimeo or Facebook video differ from YouTube in that respect. Where did you hear that? You should test it yourself and view on some different devices before believing it. You can use Musicvid's grayscale charts from this comment.
Nick,
It's simpler than that.
Download my original file from Vimeo.com (or any other original file) and all the other files with various pixel dimensions that Vimeo.com encodes and offers for download. Stack them on the Vegas timeline and do a difference and you will find that Vimeo.com doesn't change the levels.
The facts as I know them are that one should upload to Vimeo.com in the range 016-235.
Here's what I see. Ignore the levels of the navigation bar.
Looks the same on Vimeo as they did five years ago....
Looks the same on Vimeo as they did five years ago....
You think Handbrake is still a better encoder for YouTube/Vimeo/Facebook than anything in Vegas 15?
Under 10Mbps, yes.
At 12+ Mbps, you'll never notice a difference.