Might as well learn about Wave Hammer if you plan to do this kind of work.

I need that loud and bright- clean sound most movies have

Hire a audio post pro.

That said, LoudMax is a favorite VST volume maximizer amongst half-deaf loudness war solderers. But it is relatively clean and easy to use (and abuse). Multi-band compressors can work good on S/FX as well.. prior to peak limiting.

I like the (1176) vintage sound of the legacy Wave Hammer for music projects, but it will distort dialog easily when a lot of gain reduction is required.

(I am using mostly stock audio's from Freesound, is that the main issue here?

90% of the audio on Freesound.org is poorly recorded by non-pros) and needs lots of further processing.. to make it even semi-usable. There are gems on there though, but one must wade through the crap

I need that loud and bright- clean sound most movies have

Hire a audio post pro.

That said, LoudMax is a favorite VST volume maximizer amongst half-deaf loudness war solderers. But it is relatively clean and easy to use (and abuse). Multi-band compressors can work good on S/FX as well.. prior to peak limiting.

I like the (1176) vintage sound of the legacy Wave Hammer for music projects, but it will distort dialog easily when a lot of gain reduction is required.

(I am using mostly stock audio's from Freesound, is that the main issue here?

90% of the audio on Freesound.org is poorly recorded by non-pros) and needs lots of further processing.. to make it even semi-usable. There are gems on there though, but one must wade through the crap

Hi, thanks a lot for the additional details. Internet is such a great thing, to talk with a proffessional person about the subject like you 🙌

I will check out the audio programs you mentioned. So, i have kind of a similar taste on sound in film as David Lynch.

I have a lots of mysterious wind, wooshes, electrical sounds, rumbles and low Hz bass notes going on, in my film.

I sure want to create my own sounds in the near future, do you know how Alan Splet and Lynch (I am assuming and hoping that you know them.) created those sounds back in the 70's?

Is there any ''sound making'' machine/ device exist now?

Or they recorded naturally occuring and man made noises and distorted them on the post- production?

Lastly, do you have any advices to make my sounds more ''bright''? I play with frequencies to make them fit together but for example, some sounds gets buried down and becomes unhearable.

As i mentioned, i also want to increase the master volume of my project without audio cracks and distortion... I will try my chance with those programs.

For example, in one scene there is calm fire burning sound and a mystical swoosh sound effect, but right when the swoosh starts i also added a deep unnerving bass sound, but that bass sound in unhearable, so when i increase the DB of it, it becomes distorted and still not easy to hear.

Thanks much!!

Rule #1 - No red peaks. Ever.

Rule #2 - When in doubt, refer to Rule #1.

"but that bass sound in unhearable, so when i increase the DB of it, it becomes distorted and still not easy to hear."

Might as well learn about Volume Envelopes while you're at it.

@Dale_Blackburn

Look up Foley Technique and start reading and watching.

Foley is a unique sound effect technique that involves creating and “performing” everyday sounds for movies and television shows. Foley artists create these sounds in a recording studio during post-production, in synchrony with the picture, to enhance the quality of the audio. Foley sound got its name from Jack Foley, the sound effects artists who developed and shaped the technique.

Here is a link to start you off:

And another if you want to sign up for David Lynch's MasterClass.

A guide to audio compression basics, which one needs to know first.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/beginners-guide-audio-compression/

"but that bass sound in unhearable, so when i increase the DB of it, it becomes distorted and still not easy to hear."

Might as well learn about Volume Envelopes while you're at it.

Thanks! Do you mean amplitude and such things? Can i make these edits on Sony Vegas or i should use other audio programs? I didn't see any volume envelope settings on Sony Vegas 17.

And i think Wave Hammer is a plug- in for sony vegas? No spesific programs came up when i searched.

I need that loud and bright- clean sound most movies have

Hire a audio post pro.

That said, LoudMax is a favorite VST volume maximizer amongst half-deaf loudness war solderers. But it is relatively clean and easy to use (and abuse). Multi-band compressors can work good on S/FX as well.. prior to peak limiting.

I like the (1176) vintage sound of the legacy Wave Hammer for music projects, but it will distort dialog easily when a lot of gain reduction is required.

(I am using mostly stock audio's from Freesound, is that the main issue here?

90% of the audio on Freesound.org is poorly recorded by non-pros) and needs lots of further processing.. to make it even semi-usable. There are gems on there though, but one must wade through the crap

Hi, thanks a lot for the additional details. Internet is such a great thing, to talk with a proffessional person about the subject like you 🙌

I will check out the audio programs you mentioned. So, i have kind of a similar taste on sound in film as David Lynch.

I have a lots of mysterious wind, wooshes, electrical sounds, rumbles and low Hz bass notes going on, in my film.

I sure want to create my own sounds in the near future, do you know how Alan Splet and Lynch (I am assuming and hoping that you know them.) created those sounds back in the 70's?

Is there any ''sound making'' machine/ device exist now?

Or they recorded naturally occuring and man made noises and distorted them on the post- production?

 

Lastly, do you have any advices to make my sounds more ''bright''? I play with frequencies to make them fit together but for example, some sounds gets buried down and becomes unhearable.

As i mentioned, i also want to increase the master volume of my project without audio cracks and distortion... I will try my chance with those programs.

For example, in one scene there is calm fire burning sound and a mystical swoosh sound effect, but right when the swoosh starts i also added a deep unnerving bass sound, but that bass sound in unhearable, so when i increase the DB of it, it becomes distorted and still not easy to hear.

 

Thanks much!!

Do you have an LFE channel going? Also, what's your monitor ref. level?

Plugin is an oversubscribed word :)

Most of the dynmaics (compressor / limiter) plugins you see mentioned will be audio plugins of the VST, VST3, AU or AAX format. These will typically work in DAWs and audio tools like soundforge. They are not Video plugins or fx, transitions, etc... that you are perhaps used to.
If you've not got soundforge, a free to try DAW that I use myself and would recommend is Reaper. Just drop your audio or video track in there, load some audio fx on that channel and render out the audio. You can then mute the original video's audio and use the rendered audio from Reaper that has been through a Limiter.

Regarding your choice of Audio plugin, a Limiter is a far better tool for you than a Compressor as the former makes guarantees about maximum level where as the latter just promises to squash the signal by a defined ratio when it's over a certain threshold.

I happen to write plugins for a living and make an easy to use limiter called UrsaDSP Boost, it has a free, time limited trial that might be enough for your purposes. Just set the ouput level to -2.0 dB push the Boost dial up until you're happy with the balance of level to background noise.

I'm not putting a link here as I'm not sure what the policies are for including external links on this forum as I've only just joined looking for advice on another matter myself but I'm sure you can google the name and find the download.

HTH,

Dave@ursadsp

'Wave Hammer' is specific to Sound Forge Pro, but when installed it is shared to Vegas. There are many other comp/limiter/volume max plug-ins available for free and otherwise, for instance, the free LoudMax VST plug-in is popular and easy to use.. even for non-audio folk.

VP's volume envelopes are post file and fader gain and applied at the track level, does not change the file or event's amplitude, To see and work with volume envelopes, go to the Insert menu or use the keyboard shortcut key "V". See the help menu for adding/moving points, slopes and other manipulations.

.. My favorite volume envelope tip: highlight the section on the timeline you wish to adjust, drag the volume envelope line up or down, points are inserted automatically.

Thank you all for the answers and help.

Plugin is an oversubscribed word :)

Most of the dynmaics (compressor / limiter) plugins you see mentioned will be audio plugins of the VST, VST3, AU or AAX format.

Yeah i have learned this while researching. It seems that audio plug- in's need audio plug- in host programs. Which is VST's i guess? That does not seem to be useful for me.

Yeah, i just installed Sound Forge Pro. I have it now.

'Wave Hammer' is specific to Sound Forge Pro, but when installed it is shared to Vegas.

So, i opened Vegas but nothing seems to has been added or changed. Is there a thing i have to do to merge these two programs together? Should they have the latest versions?

So i think i have to edit my sounds in Sound Forge, RENDER them, and then add them back into my Sony Vegas project in order to change their inner amplitude?

Is this what people generally do?

Or if i understood correctly, i can use the Vegas's own insert option which says FX Automation.

And these things called audio compression in general?

I also downloaded LoudMax but only a dll. file came o out and i can't see it on Vegas too.

A little confuison for now.

Also, i want to ask, is there any spesific program or method that pro filmmakers use to edit audio today? The whole Adobe Pro packages or something? Or they use DAW's and tons of other different programs?

Oh and well, i can't figure out now where and on what step i can correct my inital problem in this process...

Making the master volume sound louder without losing any of my harmony after compressions and edits?

Am i have to increase every sound individually to achive this? I also wonder where LoudMax chimes in in this process.

I hope i can leap forward a lot on knowledge after these many questions 😅

Oh now i can see a plug in called Wave Hammer on insert settings in VP. (Is this came from Sound Forge being downloaded on my pc alone?).

Also added the LoudMax to my plug- ins. Neat- o!

Thanks, do you have any information and answers for other questions too though?

As to wrap it up, for the record:

1-) I should use these audio compressor plug- ins for my unbalanced and non- bright, buried down basses and sounds. And for clipping, distortion..

2-) Second, i can increase my overall master volume with LoudMax.

3-) I have to play with the inner amplitudes of my sounds inside the Sound Forge and render them, add them back to VP. Because anything i would do inside the Sony Vegas would be ''post file'' effects.

Or, using Vegas's own horizontal lines from audio envelope menu which only consists volume, mute, pan and a section called FX Autimation.

I hope im on the right tracks here. Oh, and i will definitely share my film when it ends, so you guys can criticize the audio quality of it.

should use these audio compressor plug- ins for my unbalanced and non- bright, buried down basses and sounds. And for clipping, distortion..

Wave Hammer's first stage (comprssor) has an auto gain compensation option which can help even volumes out.

'Treble and bass' is typically adjusted with EQ and/or a multiband compression, exciters, ect... Clipping is another issue all together and should be addressed prior. If you have Sound Forge Pro, that has a Clip restoration process. which is good for occasional 'overs'm but for analog distortion and severe overs, specialized tools may help (iZoyope RX or Steinberg SpectraLayers for instance).

Can I increase my overall master volume with LoudMax.

By all means, add LoudMax to the Master bus Fx plug-in chainer.

3-) I have to play with the inner amplitudes of my sounds inside the Sound Forge and render them, add them back to VP. Because anything i would do inside the Sony Vegas would be ''post file'' effects.

Not exactly sure what you mean, but Sound Forge is integrated into Vegas Pro. Right-click the audio event you wish to work on in SF and select 'Open copy in audio editor' A new 'take' of the event will be created to work on in SF. When saved, it is applied on top of the original event in Vegas. You can toggle the before/after takes with the keyboard command 'T' . If you wish to work on the events entire audio file, right-click and select "Open in audio editor", this mode is destructive, and does not create a new take, so it is a good idea to have a back-up, in case something goes wrong and it is overwritten (saved in Sound Forge).

FWIW, the "JB Broadcast" freeware plug-in is great for leveling uneven volume content. It has a decent sounding auto gain, multiband compression, output limiting, middle/sides, ect. It may be too complicated for non-audio folks though.

should use these audio compressor plug- ins for my unbalanced and non- bright, buried down basses and sounds. And for clipping, distortion..

Wave Hammer's first stage (comprssor) has an auto gain compensation option which can help even volumes out.

'Treble and bass' is typically adjusted with EQ and/or a multiband compression, exciters, ect... Clipping is another issue all together and should be addressed prior. If you have Sound Forge Pro, that has a Clip restoration process. which is good for occasional 'overs'm but for analog distortion and severe overs, specialized tools may help (iZoyope RX or Steinberg SpectraLayers for instance).

Can I increase my overall master volume with LoudMax.

By all means, add LoudMax to the Master bus Fx plug-in chainer.

3-) I have to play with the inner amplitudes of my sounds inside the Sound Forge and render them, add them back to VP. Because anything i would do inside the Sony Vegas would be ''post file'' effects.

Not exactly sure what you mean, but Sound Forge is integrated into Vegas Pro. Right-click the audio event you wish to work on in SF and select 'Open copy in audio editor' A new 'take' of the event will be created to work on in SF. When saved, it is applied on top of the original event in Vegas. You can toggle the before/after takes with the keyboard command 'T' . If you wish to work on the events entire audio file, right-click and select "Open in audio editor", this mode is destructive, and does not create a new take, so it is a good idea to have a back-up, in case something goes wrong and it is overwritten (saved in Sound Forge).

FWIW, the "JB Broadcast" freeware plug-in is great for leveling uneven volume content. It has a decent sounding auto gain, multiband compression, output limiting, middle/sides, ect. It may be too complicated for non-audio folks though.

 

That was really helpful. Yep now i can open Sound Forge and see the double takes with T. Gosh, how would i know all of these shortcuts and adjustments by myself... I really want to dive deep in to sound design.

One more thing, while doing audio compression, i think i have to add my VST- plugins to every channel one by one, right? And trying until those channels and sounds mix together well and some of them not getting buried down in the mix..

Because i have 8 audio channels going on right now. I think thats the only practical way to go?

It is usually best to EQ tracks (and in some cases.. events) separately, but 'it depends'. For instance on music mixes, I typically assign the 7 or 8 drum tracks to a sub mater bus and compress that and have another comp/peak limiter on the overall final master bus.
For narratives, you could have the Dialog tracks assigned to sub mater bus-A, Music to sub bus B, and S/FX to sub bus C. A ducking compressor can also be added to attenuate the music and such when there is dialog.. however, VP can not side-chain natively (despite many asking for that feature since Sonic Foundry's Vegas 1 (beta).

Makes sense! I hope this is not too much, but i wonder something. So the general advices i get for my main problems were: Audio Compression and playing with the Audio Envelopes.

Im doing exercises and experiments on sounds now, but im still unable to achieve what i want. Compression seems to useful only for reducing clipping and loud peaks.

But my main problem was making some sounds ''hearable'' and more ''bright'' in the mix.. For example, there is a mix of Swoosh Sound and a Low Rumble Bass sound in one scene.

Whatever i tried i couldn't make that bass sound hearable, unless i reduce the Swoosh sounds Amplitude a lot.. Which that's something i don't want.

I guess there is no real way to achieve what i need?

90% of the audio on Freesound.org is poorly recorded by non-pros) and needs lots of further processing.. to make it even semi-usable.

Btw, how can i do this? What kind of processes we are talking about here.

(I also have Adobe Audition which has background noise reduction channel.)

I always use volume envelopes in conjunction with EQ and comp/limiters on tracks and busses. Most plug-in process parameters can be automated as well to fine tune mixes,
it is similar to the volume/pan envelopes but more complex, depending on how many parameters need to be changed.

my main problem was making some sounds ''hearable'' and more ''bright'' in the mix.. For example, there is a mix of Swoosh Sound and a Low Rumble Bass sound in one scene.

Can you post a PCM or MP3 clip on, DropBox, GoogleDrive, OneDrive or other file sharing site?

@rraud, @Dale_Blackburn
May I ask a question in between?

@rraud
You once said in another thread that the first thing you do when you install an update of Vegas Pro is to delete the preset audio track FX.

I always use volume envelopes in conjunction with EQ and comp/limiters on tracks and busses. Most plug-in process parameters can be automated as well to fine tune mixes,
it is similar to the volume/pan envelopes but more complex, depending on how many parameters need to be changed.

Here you say that you always use EQ and comp/limiters on tracks and busses.
Instead of the preset FX in Vegas Pro, can you recommend FX that you think are better - if possible FX that are already installed in Vegas Pro - or SoundforgePro?

I always use volume envelopes in conjunction with EQ and comp/limiters on tracks and busses. Most plug-in process parameters can be automated as well to fine tune mixes,
it is similar to the volume/pan envelopes but more complex, depending on how many parameters need to be changed.

my main problem was making some sounds ''hearable'' and more ''bright'' in the mix.. For example, there is a mix of Swoosh Sound and a Low Rumble Bass sound in one scene.

Can you post a PCM or MP3 clip on, DropBox, GoogleDrive, OneDrive or other file sharing site?

Here they are. Btw when you mean you add compressors to busses for example, do you mean adding it to the whole ''channel'' right? Bus= channel i think, the ones you see on the timeline with different colors.

Oh damn tho, if people watch my film with speakers and not headphones, they are not going to hear this bass... I couldn't hear before plugging my headphones in.

I wonder what processes i can do to that swoosh to sound better too.