Lossless video importing corrupted

Nordern wrote on 2/8/2019, 12:54 PM

Lossless video recorded with OBS on "Advanced" plays fine in MPC but imports without full color or corrupted into VEGAS

I've tried the GPU accel disable, tried to disable the compoundplugs. No fixes found, altering recording settings in OBS aswell leads to no change.

Sample videos of working VBR & not working Lossless: (well it works, but has no color, other times it's almost a grey screen of mushy video)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z53zy3rwce00o4f/Lossless.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jfvxxp9fyupbxa6/VBR.mp4?dl=0

 

 

Lossless in MPC: https://i.imgur.com/Yz6DM1T.jpg

Lossless in VEGAS: https://i.imgur.com/cZ3XTpr.png

Lossless Mediainfo:

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\N\Videos\OBS RECORDINGS\ArmA3 Antics ep 6\Lossless\Replay 010220192019s.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 3.81 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 56 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 282 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Lavf57.84.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High 4:4:4 Predictive@L4.2
Format settings                          : 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : No
Format settings, RefFrames               : 1 frame
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 56 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 282 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 40.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 60.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.263
Stream size                              : 3.81 GiB (100%)
Color range                              : Limited
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.470 System B/G
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

For now i've changed recording settings, but is there a fix to VEGAS that will allow (proper) editing of these Lossless files without re-encoding them?

Cheers

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 2/8/2019, 9:20 PM

The recommended nominal settings for OBS in Vegas are here.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-wjhat-obs-studio-settings-work-well-with-vegas-pro--109925/

AVC at 280 Mbps 4:4:4 isn't mathematically lossless, but it's damn close. If you could record those numbers at Hi10P profile, you would have a perfect video that might shut you system down if you ever tried to play or load it in Vegas.

That said, 80 Mbps is considered overkill for even 4k 60p 4:2:0 headed for YouTube. "Lossless" isn't really a consideration if it's destined for YouTube, and I doubt most people could consistently see a difference in a double -blind test. I see a lot of 1080 p60 camera acquisitions coming in around 40-60 Mbps, and it looks and plays terrific on a reasonably fast system.

Here's a couple of sidebars that you may find interesting.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/wagging-the-dog-effects-of-hyperoptimal-youtube-upload-bitrates--114098/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/tool-for-measuring-render-quality--114398/

Start with the settings in the first link and work your way up (down). Lower RF = Higher bitrate, below 18 will be bigger than your source, so don't go there. And don't chase the bitrate -- it knows what it's doing! Playability is pretty much a joke past a certain bitrate point, which is unique to each hardware, source, and system environment. Back off your settings before you reach that point with high-motion source.

I don't know why CABAC Off is being reported. That's a huge space-eater, like 20% bigger file size. Also, 3 ref frames shouldn't hurt your render times. And, since you will deliver 4:2:O, a capture at 4:4:4 isn't exactly necessary.

Glitchy renders are sometimes fixed by drivers or turning hardware acceleration off; or, sane bitrates as alluded to. Experiment.

 

Nordern wrote on 2/9/2019, 3:52 AM

The recommended nominal settings for OBS in Vegas are here.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-wjhat-obs-studio-settings-work-well-with-vegas-pro--109925/

AVC at 280 Mbps 4:4:4 isn't mathematically lossless, but it's damn close. If you could record those numbers at Hi10P profile, you would have a perfect video that might shut you system down if you ever tried to play or load it in Vegas.

That said, 80 Mbps is considered overkill for even 4k 60p 4:2:0 headed for YouTube. "Lossless" isn't really a consideration if it's destined for YouTube, and I doubt most people could consistently see a difference in a double -blind test. I see a lot of 1080 p60 camera acquisitions coming in around 40-60 Mbps, and it looks and plays terrific on a reasonably fast system.

Here's a couple of sidebars that you may find interesting.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/wagging-the-dog-effects-of-hyperoptimal-youtube-upload-bitrates--114098/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/tool-for-measuring-render-quality--114398/

Start with the settings in the first link and work your way up (down). Lower RF = Higher bitrate, below 18 will be bigger than your source, so don't go there. And don't chase the bitrate -- it knows what it's doing! Playability is pretty much a joke past a certain bitrate point, which is unique to each hardware, source, and system environment. Back off your settings before you reach that point with high-motion source.

I don't know why CABAC Off is being reported. That's a huge space-eater, like 20% bigger file size. Also, 3 ref frames shouldn't hurt your render times. And, since you will deliver 4:2:O, a capture at 4:4:4 isn't exactly necessary.

Glitchy renders are sometimes fixed by drivers or turning hardware acceleration off; or, sane bitrates as alluded to. Experiment.

 

Thank you for reply, i will take a look at those links

It's not renders that are the problem, it's importing it, the bitrate settings etc are all "Default" OBS does not allow any setting of the settings apart from profile ( baseline - high444p ) when in "lossless".

i've used it as it looked really great from my testing, sadly i didn't test them in VEGAS before recording 100+ segments... ) I'm currently re-encoding with FFMPEG to get them working so that's a solution

Do we know why VEGAS won't import them properly?

Nordern wrote on 2/9/2019, 7:09 AM

I've come to the conclusion VEGAS ( among other programs) doesn't have proper support for H.264 Lossless, i'll recode with FFMPEG into something working & use CRF for future recordings

Thanks for the help

Kinvermark wrote on 2/9/2019, 7:48 AM

Good idea. The whole concept "lossless" h264 is a bit weird to me. Seems like a kludge OBS uses because they have an h264 encoder built in and decided to use it for something it's not really intended to do.

Better lossless intermediates include cineform, prores, dnxhd, MagicYUV, etc.

Nordern wrote on 2/9/2019, 8:05 AM

Good idea. The whole concept "lossless" h264 is a bit weird to me. Seems like a kludge OBS uses because they have an h264 encoder built in and decided to use it for something it's not really intended to do.

Better lossless intermediates include cineform, prores, dnxhd, MagicYUV, etc.

Yea, it does not have many options to set in OBS, using CRF or CQP at low rates is probably the better solution

setting it to Lossless was just easy & gave fantastic quality

This is what the screen on OBS looks like when set to lossless: https://i.imgur.com/T2Fbc9K.png

ohwell

Tried ProRes, VEGAS refuses to import dual audio track prores regardless what i try so that's not an option

might go back to other intermediates at some point if i can be bothered, that's for another day ;)

 

Musicvid wrote on 2/9/2019, 10:11 AM

Norbert, there is no way anyone needs or can use lossless x264 capture for lossy delivery. It's an idealized fantasy for young hobbyists with $4,000 editing rigs. Like the aptly, if snarkily-named x264 "Placebo" preset, just a developer's joke to trap overthinkers. It ain't Vegas. This is the truth about all that hype.

You do need to capture at optimal source quality, usually occuring around RF 18-22 at .995 SSIM. There is no advantage whatsoever beyond that. Start with the settings that work in the link above. You might be missing some advanced settings.

Your idea for your existing source is good. There are far more manageable lossless codecs than the x264 kludge, which is the same as RF= 0. Those are often used as intermediates for handoff and multiple generations.