Multiple cameras choppy playback and slow render times VP14+

johnny-d wrote on 1/4/2019, 2:48 AM

I use Vegas Pro primarily for editing weddings which I shoot on multiple cameras. I edit in a normal timeline (not multi-cam) and use plural eyes for syncing all cameras. The way I edit is typically, I have my locked down wide shot on the bottom with a tight shot right above. Then I have 2-3 other cameras above those (manned).

When I edit, I basically only cut what I need, meaning that I will not cut a track below a scene I am using. So if Track 1 is being used, tracks 2-5 are not cut to create empty tracks below track 1. After I do my CC playback slows down and usually I will still get 15fps or so on best full on a 1080p timeline. On one project however, my playback went down to less than 1fps!!! Rendering was a nightmare as it was just as slow. When you are rendering a 2 hour movie and it renders at 1 frame per second, you are talking about roughly 2 days of rendering!!! Even worse, this project, it would fail every time part way through at unpredictable spots...

I tried different systems, different versions of vegas (14, 15, 16), Sony/Magix AVC (heck, I even tried exporting mpeg2 DVD), Also tried rendering using AMD and nVidia rendering acceleration and nothing made a difference. I experimented with the first few seconds a bit. I tried using the built in color correction tools (previously using fbmn WB and magic bullet looks). This helped get me to about 3fps. I then noticed something. When the bottom track was active (all tracks above were cut) playback shot up to 23.976 fps... I initially thought, maybe it is just the camera, but this was actually 4k footage and some of the other tracks were 1080p... I then thought, let me cut all tracks below the active tracks and this did the trick. My playback is now always full speed at best full and rendering times are close to real time, however...

It seems that during playback and encoding, VP is processing all of the video tracks. So if I am using 4 cameras, but at a particular scene, I cut track 1 and track 2 is active, it will still process tracks 3 & 4 and slow down my computer to a crawl. Is there a setting or something where only the track that is actually showing footage is being processed? I like to color after I cut, so this would add another step in my editing where I have to trim all tracks that are not played after coloring. It is this last step that I would like to avoid because it is just adding another hour or so of work.

Thank you and I appreciate all feedback

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 1/4/2019, 4:24 AM

Some reading in case you drink too much coffee and can't sleep.

OldSmoke wrote on 1/4/2019, 11:03 AM

@johnny-d I am not sure what you are trying to achieve by NOT using the multicam editing tool. Can you please explain that? If you are worried about color correction, do it on the media level.

johnny-d wrote on 1/4/2019, 8:34 PM

@john_dennis thank you for the link. It seems very similar to what I am experiencing. I havent had enough time to read the whole thread, but maybe it has an answer. It seems like multi-cam mode is not affected by this.

@OldSmoke I've used multi-cam before and i remember it putting all files on a single track. This makes coloring a nightmare. Can you explain what you mean by coloring at the media level? Maybe i am not using multi-cam mode correctly?

OldSmoke wrote on 1/4/2019, 8:51 PM

@johnny-d Here is how I go about multicam projects. At first I layout the source files and sync them. Use what ever method suits you and your type of work. I than make myself a “Video Wall”, meaning use a Vegasaur utility to show all of the camera angles in the preview window much like a multicam track. I now start with color matching the cameras by applying color correction on the “media level” and not on the event level as that would be lost when creating a multicam track. Once done, I create the multicam track. I make my cuts, apply transitions to one or multiple cuts and I can still do additional color correction or apply FX on each individual event.

Note: applying on the media level means right click the event and chose “Media level FX”.

Depending on your source files and project, multicam editing is resource intensive. On my system I can edit 8bit multicam projects 1080 60p up to 4 camera angels with preview set to Best/Full, 4K 30p up to 3 in Best/Full before fps is dropping. Also, this is all in 8bit.

Also, if you name the tracks before you create the multicam track, the name will appear in the preview window as camera angle when creating the multicam track.

Musicvid wrote on 1/4/2019, 8:55 PM

If you go to your Project Media window, that's where all of your source media lives.

That's where you need to apply any and all effects to be used in multicam projects, with almost no exceptions. Multicam is source dependent.

It is possible to apply effects to the Media, the Track, the Event, and the Output busses.

johnny-d wrote on 1/4/2019, 9:20 PM

This is different than what I am used to, but I can give it a try. As long as multi-cam runs smoothly it should be fine. I have a 4930k/32gb Ram and r9 fury.

I like the idea of the video wall, but last I remember vegasaur is not free :(

OldSmoke wrote on 1/4/2019, 9:23 PM

Vegasaur is not free but you can achieve the same with Track Motion. Vegasaur is $50.00 and worth every penny. Your system is about the same as mine aside from the CPU which is a generation newer.

Musicvid wrote on 1/4/2019, 11:51 PM

As long as multi-cam runs smoothly it should be fine. I have a 4930k/32gb Ram and r9 fury.

Well, if you have fat source and effects, don't count on it.

One word-- Proxies.

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 11/17/2019, 2:08 PM

Hey @Musicvid.. I'm a huge Excaliber fan for our multi-cam work -- it's nondestructive way of editing and only building the master track upon completion is superior IMO -- the ability to apply event-level FX, pan/crop, etc and have them preserved. Cross-fades actually showing by a cross-fading tally... And the ability to define different hotkeys for different edits is really efficient.

THAT said -- I'm going to try this 6-cam edit next week using just native Vegas 17 tools. One thing I noticed is that although MY machine is getting full-frame playback on our 1080p media, my partner's editing station will likely not keep up, especially if she wants to edit in fast-forward as she sometimes will do for her rough cut (show dependent).

What tricks have you found to optimize this?

With EXCALIBER I simply build a proxy (pre-render) the multicam view to an MXF file, put that rendered proxy file just below the tally (showing which cam is the active take) and voila.. it's just a single video being played during the multi-cam edit (instead of each camera's footage), and a tally overlay.. SUPER efficient, can edit 9, 10, 16 cams whatever.. all at whatever speeds at full frame rate! Source video is 1080p .MP4, appx 35 Mbpps.

What equivalent methods have you found with just Vegas tools? Would I really gain *that* much by building a proxy on every single camera, since it'd still have to decode and playback all of them, and with higher disk I/O if proxies are larger. Or is there a way to build a proxy (pre-render) of that multi-cam 9-up view?

Musicvid wrote on 11/17/2019, 2:30 PM

Thanks for the recommendation; I don't have Excalibur, and I don't plan any multicam projects now that I'm retired from theatre production.

AVsupport wrote on 11/17/2019, 3:50 PM

This might be related to this (hopefully now) known issue:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vp17-timeline-playback-performance-for-multiple-tracks-321-update--116872/?page=2#ca733110

In short, certain FX will trigger translucency even if they mask the below clip 100% which in turn means VP processes both clips regardless, leading to performance decrease.

This is one of the most pressing issues in my book currently.