Non-realtime preview without dropping frames?

michael-harrison wrote on 9/12/2020, 2:15 PM

Similar to After Effects?

Can someone from Magix chime in on if Vegas is likely to ever allow previewing without dropping frames?

Some of you are no doubt asking "why would you want that?"

Because even though Vegas isn't the fasted NLE around, I still find it the most intuitive, even for VFX-heavy work that I'm dabbling in.

Some of that work results in layers of FX and/or complicated single FX that can't render at realtime speeds. Sometimes some of this work can take most of a second to render, sometimes longer.

I would rather that VP render every frame so that I can get an accurate preview of what my fx will look like.

I have AE and use it as needed for now, but would like to be able to do most of my work in VP when I can.

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolution        3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

 

Comments

wwaag wrote on 9/12/2020, 3:28 PM

Have you tried HOS KwikPreview? It's like Shift-B but without the limitations. Plus split-screen options. Here's the UI.

And a demo.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Robert Johnston wrote on 9/12/2020, 3:57 PM

@michael-harrison I don't know about what After Effects can do, but have you tried this?

When I want to see every frame play back fully rendered, I use that scrub control in the track list. Of course I don't watch the entire video this way.

If you don't mind playing back at a very slow rate, you might be able see all the frames played back fully rendered by using the scrub control. I don't actually scrub. I entered 0,02, for example, for the rate and clicked the play button and was able to see every frame play back fully rendered (lots of effects piled on with non-default settings). Although the playback is slow, the preview playback fps shows the project frame rate of 59.94 fps. Anything less means not every frame is played back.

I'm not sure how low the rate can go, but I tried 0,0001, and that worked even though the last two decimal places don't show.

Intel Core i7 10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz (to 4.65GHz), NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8GBytes. Memory 32 GBytes DDR4. Also Intel UHD Graphics 630. Mainboard: Dell Inc. PCI-Express 3.0 (8.0 GT/s) Comet Lake. Bench CPU Multi Thread: 5500.5 per CPU-Z.

Vegas Pro 21.0 (Build 108) with Mocha Vegas

Windows 11 not pro

michael-harrison wrote on 9/12/2020, 5:59 PM

P-R-E-R-E-N-D-E-R

@Musicvid at certain points in the process a render test is appropriate but at most other stages a pre-render would be the wrong thing to do. A little like color grading. It needs to be done at the right time.

@Robert Johnston I'll have to try that. Being able to play as fast as it's capable, automatically, would be preferable but if I can keep the play rate close, that would be workable.

@wwaag Thanks, I'll give that a look

 

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolution        3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

 

Musicvid wrote on 9/12/2020, 6:37 PM

The debate between Vegas prerender and Adobe-style background render has been around for decades. Both have major downsides, that is for certain. What I do know is that in Vegas, the decision by Sonic Foundry was deliberate, and neither Sony nor Magix so far has chosen to revisit.

Former user wrote on 9/12/2020, 9:24 PM

I don't think he wants pre-render, background render or any optimised stuff, but rather on the fly playback of all frames without having to do a setup before hand. Instead of dropping frames, the playback slows down. I find it handy and unlike some modes/functions it would seem like it would be very easy to implement. Playback should be 60fps, but playback is reduced so all frames can be previewed, then set back to normal mode that would drop frames

The noise on transitions is not an effect, it's audio distorting due to slowing down

 

wwaag wrote on 9/12/2020, 10:43 PM

"but rather on the fly playback of all frames without having to do a setup before hand".

Agree completely. Just to be clear, the dialog shown on HOS KwikPreview is only seen during initial set-up in which the user decides the type of preview, frame-size of the preview, rendering codec to be used, etc. Once done, there is a checkbox to hide the dialog on future runs. At that point, the user sets the render loop and runs the preview, just like Shift-B. A keyboard shortcut could also be assigned.

An advantage of an external preview app, in this case MPC-HC, is that the user can speed up or slow down the preview or just advance frame-by-frame.

Last changed by wwaag on 9/12/2020, 10:44 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

wilvan wrote on 9/14/2020, 2:22 AM

Nice tools of wwaag !

We noticed here that starting from vegas pro 17 build 387 and onwards ( including vegas pro 18 ) , the RAM dynamic preview only working when project properties are 8 bit and not anymore when project properties are 32 bit full level . It's a feature we have been using all the time since sony versions and when creating clips with lots of FX and/o bezier masking and in order to almost instantly realtime previewing the result at full frame rate . When 32 bit full level is chosen , the dynamic RAM preview gives insane results ( 3 frames , 6 frames , 1.5 frames ,.. ) . Our lots of RAM ( 128 GB ) installed is meant to be used .....

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