Pixelation when rendered by Vegas Pro 15

Comments

AveSatanas wrote on 2/4/2020, 1:37 AM

@fifonik vokouder wont render averagr bitrate for some reason only cqp and crf

fifonik wrote on 2/4/2020, 2:59 AM

Sorry, I've never used average bitrate in Voukoder before as I'm not trying to fit something on CD/DVD/BD and do not worrying about bitrate's number itself.

Just created a new Voukoder profile, specified preset (slower), strategy (ABR) and bitrate (20000) and it rendered with no issues. Targeted bitrate was confirmed in resulting file with Mediainfo.

If you sure that there is a bug in encoder, you should report it in Voukoder's forum.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

AveSatanas wrote on 2/4/2020, 3:46 AM

Excuse the quality of this pic but this is my file with cqp at 18, slow, x264 the file looks super quality but the bitrate...ill try upload to yt and see what happens

Also yeah with average bitrate, my file renders but doesnt get stored on my drive

fifonik wrote on 2/4/2020, 5:09 AM

Every time when saying something, you are replying about something absolutely different. I'm done, sorry.

P.S.

http://www.chaneru.com/Roku/HLS/X264_Settings.htm#qp

qp produces larger files than --crf for the same visual quality. qp mode also disables adaptive quantization, since by definition 'constant quantizer' implies no adaptive quantization.

...

You should generally use --crf instead

https://slhck.info/video/2017/03/01/rate-control.html, then Ctrl + F | CQP

The Quantization Parameter controls the amount of compression for every Macroblock in a frame

...

Unless you know what you’re doing and you explicitly want this, do not use this mode!

Last changed by fifonik on 2/4/2020, 6:09 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

AveSatanas wrote on 2/4/2020, 6:43 AM

cheeers @fifonik for the help bro appreciate it

Musicvid wrote on 2/4/2020, 8:06 PM

@fifonik

I installed Voukoder out of curiousity to test SSIM, PSNR, and times, but it does not employ GPU. At all. 100% CPU and much slower than Handbrake or HOS for x264/265. Any ideas? Intel i5-8250.

fifonik wrote on 2/4/2020, 8:38 PM

Have you chosen GPU assisted encoder? There is encoders dropdown on Video tab. By default x264 selected that is CPU only:

I do not have the H.264 QSV & NVENC, I do have AMD AMF instead

Unfortunately, I cannot suggest anything if you do not have QSV on the list other than update the iGPU drivers. I'm with AMD CPU at this moment so do not have the iGPU to check.

Last changed by fifonik on 2/4/2020, 8:47 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

AveSatanas wrote on 2/4/2020, 8:42 PM

i must say im loving vokouder x264 thanks for this @fifonik

Musicvid wrote on 2/4/2020, 9:06 PM

Oh, it doesn't accelerate x264 / 265? I thought that is what all the hype was about. QSV is 100% worthless for my needs.

x264 is 50 % faster in Handbrake and 65% faster in VRD.

fifonik wrote on 2/4/2020, 9:20 PM

x264/x265 encoders are CPU only.

Handbrake uses the same x264 encoder so probably the speed difference is because of different encoder settings (like Slow vs Medium profiles or other settings) or different compilers optimisations used. Just check what settings were used by Handbrake (you can get it with Mediainfo) and use the same for speed comparison in Vouk/x264.

It might also be VP or wrapper's overhead.

I did noticed that when compared my old frameserver + megui/x264 workflow vs Voukoder/x264. It should not be big, but if you compare on short fragments the percentage of the overhead might be huge. But that was render from VP in both cases. If I understand correctly, you are trying to compare VP + Vouk encoding versus file encoding (Handbrake).

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

Musicvid wrote on 2/4/2020, 9:44 PM

Source 4k p50 8 bit

Output x264 RF19 Medium preset, High Profile

VRD x264 -- 29 minutes

Handbrake x264 -- 32 minutes

HOS x264 -- 35 minutes

Voukoder x264 -- 50 minutes

Maybe blow the dust off if I need VP9 someday....

 

fifonik wrote on 2/4/2020, 9:59 PM

Any chance to see encoding settings (from media info) from Handbrake/x264 & Vouk/x264 rendered files?

BTW, it is better to move to Voukoder discussion

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

Musicvid wrote on 2/4/2020, 10:16 PM

Not any more, but every single parameter, including file size, PSNR, and RMS regression error, was easily within 5% of each other.

Not interested in pursuing here or at Voukoder, but thanks. It was an expectation that didn't hold up.

AveSatanas wrote on 2/4/2020, 10:29 PM

@Musicvid what is your preferred render encoder ect

john_dennis wrote on 2/4/2020, 10:33 PM

“Excuse the quality of this pic...”

@AveSatanas

Is there a compelling reason that you can’t hit the PrintScreen key, Control-V into Paint and post a picture without having to apologize?

Then, there is always the Snipping Tool.

fifonik wrote on 2/5/2020, 12:01 AM
Is there a compelling reason that you can’t hit the PrintScreen key, Control-V into Paint and post a picture

Alt + PrintScreen would be better in this case.

Also, for someone who is trying to find the best encoder/settings for patricular case, installing Mediainfo is the must.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

AveSatanas wrote on 2/5/2020, 12:06 AM

i like to use this forum on my phone and that shoot was taken from my phone it looked bad from my end

wwaag wrote on 2/5/2020, 12:46 PM

Since Musicvid mentioned Happy Otter Scripts I thought I'd add a comment. First, HOS, Voukoder (VK), and Handbrake are the same "under the hood" in that they use the x264 encoder. If you use the same settings, you should get the same results. It's just a matter of how they are implemented. In Vegas, VK sends frames directly to FFmpeg for processing while HOS uses a DebugMode FrameServer, to Avisynth, to FFmpeg pipeline. Each approach has its advantages (and disadvantages).

For a quick comparison, I rendered some test footage using the same settings in both HOS and VK. To show they are the same, here is a screen grab comparing Encoding settings from mediainfo using Notepad+.

Here is a comparison of the speed of the 2 renders. Note that the VK was rendered inside of HOS using its VegasDirect feature so that the timing comparisons would be the same.

As you can see, VK is a bit faster. Most of the difference lies in how audio is processed in HOS. Because of problems with how the FrameServer processes audio (always 44.1 Khz), HOS always renders a lossless wav file first. Audio from the rendered file is then combined with the video frames during FFmpeg processing. The one advantage of this approach is that any audio delay problems can be controlled. To illustrate, here is a screengrab of the two rendered files imported back to the Vegas timeline.

As you can see, the audio in the VK-rendered file is 44 ms "early" while HOS is pretty close. It should be pointed out that the same 44 ms problem also occurs when using Handbrake. AFAIK neither VK nor Handbrake have a way of compensating for such audio-sync errors. OTOH most users would probably consider such errors as trivial.

Musicvid wrote on 2/5/2020, 1:30 PM

@wwaag

Thanks, Wayne!

As you can see, the audio in the VK-rendered file is 44 ms "early" while HOS is pretty close. It should be pointed out that the same 44 ms problem also occurs when using Handbrake. AFAIK neither VK nor Handbrake have a way of compensating for such audio-sync errors. OTOH most users would probably consider such errors as trivial.

I documented this 44ms anomoly with x264 (ffmpeg) in 2012, and it was githubbed with Handbrake, libav, and ffmpeg, but no one ever took an interest. It is real, and pretty obvious in this demonstration using Handbrake 0.10.3 iirc.

john_dennis wrote on 2/5/2020, 1:53 PM

“OTOH most users would probably consider such errors as trivial.”

I think it’s a big deal, particularly audio that leads the video.

 

Musicvid wrote on 2/5/2020, 2:49 PM

“OTOH most users would probably consider such errors as trivial.”

I think it’s a big deal, particularly audio that leads the video.

 

A 20-30ms audio delay is pretty easy to swallow, given natural acoustics.

A 10ms audio lead is a pretty tough sell, however, except perhaps in some foreign language movie dubs.

;?)

fifonik wrote on 2/5/2020, 3:00 PM

Thanks @wwaag.

I expected that the same encoder with the same settings in the same system should have the same speeds. In the universe I live this is quite common usually.

As per audio offset, looks like ffmped have an option to offset one stream over another.

People mentioned that it was bugged, but some claim that it works nows (I have not checked myself). I will try to use the option int voukoder optionsю Sure it depend on internal implementation as the option must be added in particular position between video and audio streams.

Last changed by fifonik on 2/5/2020, 3:06 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

wwaag wrote on 2/5/2020, 3:23 PM

@fifonik

It's good to know we live in the same universe. LOL

Since HOS is "command line-driven", it is fairly trivial to add such audio delay compensation. E.g. here is the Encoder Settings dialog showing the Default command line settings.

You can see the that audio offset is moved ahead 44.4 ms. (-itsofffset 0.0444) which accounts for the sync accuracy of HOS. IMHO, the one nice feature of a command line approach is that the user knows "exactly" what's going on and how things are being processed. Each command line can be copied, modified, and tested independently.

fifonik wrote on 2/5/2020, 3:34 PM

Sorry, I was talking about voukoder (it is simpler and more than enough for me). It is "more GUI" and the command line building automatically so it might not be possible to inject such option there in correct position. In any case, even if this is not possible now (I have not checked) I do not think it would be very hard to implement it there.

P.S. As for my home videos, I do not care about the audio offset.

 

UPDATE:

Actually, I do not have the offset in my videos that I rendered using my old workflow: frameserver + MeGUI/x264. Audio/video not exactly in sync as when SonyAVC is used for example, but the offset is very tiny and audio is slightly behind (less then one frame in 60p):

Last changed by fifonik on 2/6/2020, 12:59 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17