Comments

matthias-krutz wrote on 11/6/2019, 1:01 PM

HOS ProxyAssist and ImportAssist are suitable for this. Thanks to wwaag.

For a smooth playback with pan/crop, a small file size seems to be important.

zdogg wrote on 11/6/2019, 8:46 PM

I would think a proxy, which is like a video, in your case, a video of a still, in not going to make much sense. But what do I know? It might come into play if you are doing extensive manipulation of that image, added fx and compositing, but for simple pan and crop and not much fx, I don't think it is worth bothering with a still...Correct me , somebody, if I'm wrong on that idea.

 

3POINT wrote on 11/6/2019, 11:41 PM

A proxy is just a lores copy of your video. If you need a lores copy of an image, make a snapshot.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector18

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Samsung Qled QE65Q6FN, Philips 55PFL7108

wwaag wrote on 11/7/2019, 12:34 AM

The problem that xberk is having (I think) is that preview for 4K is OK, but once a still is encountered, especially one that is panned and zoomed, the preview really suffers. ProxyAssist in HOS helps to solve this problem in that a low res still (a png rather than jpg or camera raw image) is created as a Take so that during editing the playback is much better. Once editing is completed, the original is replaced and the rendering can begin at full res. It's the same concept as creating proxies for video.

matthias-krutz wrote on 11/7/2019, 2:03 AM

It would be expected that stills should not be a problem as they are easier to process than videos. Unfortunately that is not the case. Especially when panning or when zooming out with pan / crop is used. Proxies help there, but with me jpgs run better than pngs in the same res, probably because of the smaller file size.

3POINT wrote on 11/7/2019, 3:57 AM

Does it make sense to leave preview on 4k when viewing proxies? Also do not make the mistake to generate proxies and leave you're preview on good or best, because then you will not view the proxies, but the originals.

@xberk

What resolution do your stills have? On my simple laptop I can do panning and zooming on a still (4000x3000) in a 4k project without issues in preview full.

Last changed by 3POINT on 11/7/2019, 4:01 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector18

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Samsung Qled QE65Q6FN, Philips 55PFL7108

xberk wrote on 11/7/2019, 9:46 AM

My stills are generally about 5400 x 3600 .. My new Laptop (XPS 15 7590 seems to handle the 4k video (even at Best preview) at full frame rate but stills are bumpy if I'm zooming or panning .. Stills run better with Preview (Auto) .. And it may turn out that's all I need to do (stay on Preview (auto)) to make the stills run smoothly also, but I thought of the proxies as a solution for the stills . Up to now, I've never used proxies for video or stills .. I plan on trying @wwaag ProxyAssist in the HOS .. My thought was that I'd create Proxies for the stills but not for the video. Does that make sense @wwaag ?

Musicvid wrote on 11/7/2019, 10:47 AM

Finally I think I'm reading this thread correctly.

You want a batch of light-weight still images to use as surrogates during editing for better preview, correct? I am doing this quite a lot lately with some big sequences using Irfanview. I don't know about integration with various proxy tools, I just rename a couple of folders when I'm ready to switch back to the real thing.

wwaag wrote on 11/7/2019, 10:58 AM

@xberk

Makes sense to me. Here's the ProxyAssist dialog.

Simply tick "Stills" and only select the stills events for proxy creation. I should add that proxy creation in HOS is somewhat different. The usual way (including Vegas) is to render and replace the entire media file. HOS, however, works entirely on timeline events. An individual proxy is created for each selected event and then added as a Take. This allows rapid switching from the proxy to the original plus reduces the time required for creation since only those parts of the media file that are actually being used are being rendered.

Mathias also mentioned ImportAssist. Here's the dialog showing the options for import of still images.

Another option is to crop and resize prior to import.

I should mention that original suggestions by @matthias-krutz led to the inclusion of stills processing as part of HOS.

 

Rednroll wrote on 11/7/2019, 11:19 AM

All these discussions about "proxies" and trying to figure out what the heck everyone was talking about had my head spinning. Luckily, I found some YouTube videos which explain proxies and how to create them in Vegas where this seems it will be really useful for me since my laptop I'm editing on struggles under heavy loads.

I like the idea with still images to create a lower res take and then just be able to switch between takes for editing vs. rendering purposes. Being an audio guy, the concept of using takes in Vegas are not new to me, but I seem to be struggling on how you would go about creating separate takes within an event on a Video track.

I placed a JPG file on a video track, and then tried dragging a copy of that JPG file on top of it, but separate takes did not appear on the event, so now I'm stuck on how to go about this.

xberk wrote on 11/7/2019, 1:22 PM

Hmmm ... Lots to review here ..thanks to all .. busy day for me .. I'll work on this later ..

Marco. wrote on 11/7/2019, 1:28 PM

"... but I seem to be struggling on how you would go about creating separate takes within an event on a Video track."

The concept of Takes in Vegas Pro is same for video/still image and audio.

Rednroll wrote on 11/7/2019, 1:36 PM

Hmmm ... Lots to review here ..thanks to all .. busy day for me .. I'll work on this later ..


All the details surrounding the solution seem to be focused around using HOS. I have nothing against HOS, it looks like an awesome tool created by wwaag but quite frankly I prefer to avoid adding more tools. I'm at a point in my life, where I just want to get proficient at using the tools I own. I use Vegas Pro for working with audio/video and Adobe Photoshop for working with images. These are the tools I'm comfortable working in, I don't have to hurt my brain in learning how to use the tool and its different paradigm to complete a particular task.

Therefore, I just prefer to learn a method to do what you asked about without figuring out how to configure Vegas to use HOS. It doesn't bother me if it takes me 5 steps to complete that task instead of 1. I rather just be comfortable using my hammer and screw driver and don't care about adding a rubber grip to the handle of my hammer because it will allow me to swing my hammer faster without it slipping out of my hands. I'll spit on my hands and grip the handle a little tighter instead.

Rednroll wrote on 11/7/2019, 1:46 PM

"... but I seem to be struggling on how you would go about creating separate takes within an event on a Video track."

The concept of Takes in Vegas Pro is same for video/still image and audio.

Maybe I should have provided more details on how I typically work with audio takes? I was thinking if it were the same then an assumption could have been made that I would be smart enough to figure that out on my own.

I use punch-in recording on an audio track while in loop record mode which creates multiple takes on top of each other which I can select between which one is take is active. So based on your description, I should arm the video track for record and some how figure out how to stream the additional image on top of the image I previously added?

So I'm thinking your description of takes working the same as audio doesn't apply in this case but I'm thinking there's another method to be able to put a take on top of an existing event and that's the one I was asking for assistance on how to perform.

Kinvermark wrote on 11/7/2019, 1:50 PM

A simpler way to work would be to create all your still image low res proxies using a batch processor in an image editor (photoshop , affinity photo, etc.), do your edit with these, then replace them with the full size versions just prior to render (you can force Vegas to "re-find" these simply by renaming folders.)

walter-i. wrote on 11/7/2019, 1:55 PM
Rednroll wrote:

It doesn't bother me if it takes me 5 steps to complete that task instead of 1.

Well, there are also people here who live off what we do as a hobby. And for those, it is often important to need only 1 step instead of 5 handles for one and the same job.

Marco. wrote on 11/7/2019, 2:11 PM

"I use punch-in recording on an audio track while in loop record mode which creates multiple takes on top of each other which I can select between which one is take is active."

That's the concept of looped punch-in recording, where Takes are added in a special (automated) way. The base concept of using Takes is a more generall one independend on the kind of media used.
Using Takes generally means adding/recalling media (no matter if video, audio or stills) in a stacked way into one single timeline event (of course only one kind of media can be used inside the same event). You'd usually do this by dragging and dropping the media from the window Project Media or the Vegas Explorer with the right mouse-buttom onto an existing timeline event. Once a timeline event contains at least two Takes you can switch between the Takes either by pressing the T-key or by pressing the number key of the appropriate Take (which is one of the way you'd usually do multicam editing).

Rednroll wrote on 11/7/2019, 3:44 PM
Rednroll wrote:

It doesn't bother me if it takes me 5 steps to complete that task instead of 1.

Well, there are also people here who live off what we do as a hobby. And for those, it is often important to need only 1 step instead of 5 handles for one and the same job.


I'm missing your point if you were trying to make one. I wasn't criticizing anyone's preferences of how they wish to work or tools they wish to use. I was just stating my preferences which may or may not be the same as anyone elses. Likely the reason Vegas has a "preferences" menu since not everyone wishes to work the same way. If I some how upset you because my preferences of working aren't the same as yours then you may want to visit a doctor who can help you with that anger because you're likely going to run into that often since that's just the way life is and you may have to learn how to better cope with that reality.

Rednroll wrote on 11/7/2019, 3:49 PM

"I use punch-in recording on an audio track while in loop record mode which creates multiple takes on top of each other which I can select between which one is take is active."

That's the concept of looped punch-in recording, where Takes are added in a special (automated) way. The base concept of using Takes is a more generall one independend on the kind of media used.
Using Takes generally means adding/recalling media (no matter if video, audio or stills) in a stacked way into one single timeline event (of course only one kind of media can be used inside the same event). You'd usually do this by dragging and dropping the media from the window Project Media or the Vegas Explorer with the right mouse-buttom onto an existing timeline event. Once a timeline event contains at least two Takes you can switch between the Takes either by pressing the T-key or by pressing the number key of the appropriate Take (which is one of the way you'd usually do multicam editing).


That's what I was looking for. I originally right clicked on the existing event on the timeline where there is a take menu , assuming it would have an option under there to add a take but there isn't an add take to event under those take menu item options. I also dragged and dropped from the explorer window as I originally described, the key difference there being that I didn't right click drag and drop.

xberk wrote on 11/7/2019, 5:16 PM

Hey Wayne .. you're still watching this thread .. Let's say I'm using HOS and I have 50 stills from the shoot -- and I might want to use 10 of them -- but I don't know which 10 .. at what point do I do the "proxies" ?

wwaag wrote on 11/7/2019, 5:43 PM

@xberk

Once they are on the timeline. Import first in the usual manner--however, you normally do it. Once you are happy with the "10", then create proxies by first selecting those 10 events and then run ProxyAssist for the actual creation. I would suggest that you tick "add logo". Otherwise, it is difficult to see whether the proxy or the original is being shown in your preview window.

Musicvid wrote on 11/7/2019, 6:38 PM

I rather just be comfortable using my hammer and screw driver

Here I downsize 700 stills from 1080 to 720, rename, and store in a different folder, in well under a minute with Irfanview (although several already know me as an HOS fanboy). Just the hammer though -- didn't need a screwdriver this time.

 

xberk wrote on 11/7/2019, 9:40 PM

>>Here I downsize 700 stills from 1080 to 720, rename, and store in a different folder,

Explain the renaming? Is that the key .. you crank out the proxy stills in some sort of automated batch process .. but then you rename the files to match the original file names? .. Or do you rename the Originals to the Proxies ? Either way the renaming is also an automated batch process?

Musicvid wrote on 11/7/2019, 11:10 PM

I can name them anything I want automatically. In order for the batched sequence to open, the syntax is important; e.g., nothing between the last sequence digit and the "."

Of course the name can be identical if a different folder (for a "proxy"), or Irfanview can replace the source files with the proper instruction. Or if they've been Actioned in Photoshop, which I do a lot, they come out named "img_000_copy.jpg, which of course needs to be changed to open as an image sequence.

I keep trying to post a video screencap, maybe the upload will succeed eventually. It will certainly illustrate it better than my bad narrative.