Random frames from other tracks appearing in both preview and render

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/8/2018, 12:06 PM

I appreciate the “first time poster with a problem” thingy so in an effort to not cause frustration, I’m going to do my best in terms of following the guidance set out in another thread about including all relevant info etc.

I’ve tried a lot of the “usual fixes” relating to disabling GPU and multi-thread rendering, resetting full preferences back to default and clearing cache from the temp folder, ensuring my graphics card is full up to date etc.” Nothing has worked.

I’ve searched this site, Google, the FAQs and known issues and can’t find a similar problem as to what I’m experiencing.

 

Essential info:

VEGAS Version & Build: 15.0 Build 361

Windows Edition & Version: Windows 10 Pro version 1803

Camera/App that created your footage: Sony A7S ii,  Sony A7R ii, Sony a6300

Your Delivery Destination: MP4 video for Mediazilla online delivery

Exact symptoms of your problem: Random frames from other video tracks within the project are appearing when rendering out to an MP4 file. It looks very glitchy and seems to be random each time I render out. Here’s an example:

Sometimes it also appears on the timeline during playback too, but not as noticeable.

 

MediaInfo:

***********************************

Sony A7Sii

***********************************

General

Complete name                            : E:\Video Capture\a7sii\C0282.MP4

Format                                   : XAVC

Codec ID                                 : XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)

File size                                : 6.00 GiB

Duration                                 : 16 min 36 s

Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

Overall bit rate                         : 51.7 Mb/s

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:40

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:40

 

Video

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : High@L4.1

Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames

Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes

Format settings, RefFrames               : 2 frames

Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=6

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 16 min 36 s

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 50.0 Mb/s

Maximum bit rate                         : 60.0 Mb/s

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels

Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate mode                          : Constant

Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS

Standard                                 : PAL

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.964

Stream size                              : 5.80 GiB (97%)

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:40

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:40

Color range                              : Limited

 

Audio

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : PCM

Format settings                          : Big / Signed

Codec ID                                 : twos

Duration                                 : 16 min 36 s

Bit rate mode                            : Constant

Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz

Bit depth                                : 16 bits

Stream size                              : 183 MiB (3%)

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:40

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:40

 

Other

Type                                     : meta

Duration                                 : 16 min 36 s


 

***********************************

Sony A7Rii

***********************************

 

General

Complete name                            : E:\Video Capture\a7rii\C0085.MP4

Format                                   : XAVC

Codec ID                                 : XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)

File size                                : 6.35 GiB

Duration                                 : 17 min 35 s

Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

Overall bit rate                         : 51.7 Mb/s

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-16 17:07:44

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-16 17:07:44

 

Video

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : High@L4.1

Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames

Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes

Format settings, RefFrames               : 2 frames

Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=6

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 17 min 35 s

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 50.0 Mb/s

Maximum bit rate                         : 60.0 Mb/s

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels

Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate mode                          : Constant

Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS

Standard                                 : PAL

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.964

Stream size                              : 6.14 GiB (97%)

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-16 17:07:44

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-16 17:07:44

Color range                              : Limited

 

Audio

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : PCM

Format settings                          : Big / Signed

Codec ID                                 : twos

Duration                                 : 17 min 35 s

Bit rate mode                            : Constant

Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz

Bit depth                                : 16 bits

Stream size                              : 193 MiB (3%)

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-16 17:07:44

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-16 17:07:44

 

Other

Type                                     : meta

Duration                                 : 17 min 35 s


 

***********************************

Sony a6300

***********************************

General

Complete name                            : E:\Video Capture\a6300\C0003.MP4

Format                                   : XAVC

Codec ID                                 : XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)

File size                                : 11.9 GiB

Duration                                 : 18 min 46 s

Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

Overall bit rate                         : 90.7 Mb/s

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:04

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:04

 

Video

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : High@L5.1

Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames

Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes

Format settings, RefFrames               : 2 frames

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 18 min 46 s

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 89.0 Mb/s

Maximum bit rate                         : 100.0 Mb/s

Width                                    : 3 840 pixels

Height                                   : 2 160 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate mode                          : Constant

Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.429

Stream size                              : 11.7 GiB (98%)

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:04

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:04

Color range                              : Limited

 

Audio

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : PCM

Format settings                          : Big / Signed

Codec ID                                 : twos

Duration                                 : 18 min 46 s

Bit rate mode                            : Constant

Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz

Bit depth                                : 16 bits

Stream size                              : 206 MiB (2%)

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:04

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-16 17:08:04

 

Other

Type                                     : meta

Duration                                 : 18 min 46 s



 

File Properties from Vegas

 

General

 Name: C0282.MP4

 Folder: E:\Video Capture\a7sii

 Type: AVC

 Size: 6.29 GB (6,444,254,602 bytes)

 Created: Tuesday 5 June 2018, 11:38:36

 Modified: Sunday 18 March 2018, 19:14:32

 Accessed: Tuesday 5 June 2018, 11:38:36

 Attributes: Archive

 

Streams

 Video: 00:16:36.960, 25.000 fps progressive, 1920x1080x12, AVC

 Audio: 00:16:36.960, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, PCM

 

Summary

 [TCFM]: 120259084297

 

Capture

 Recorded: Friday 16 March 2018 17:08:40

 

ACID information

 ACID chunk: no

 Stretch chunk: no

 Stretch list: no

 Stretch info2: no

 Beat markers: no

 Detected beats: no

 

Other metadata

 Regions/markers: no

 Command markers: no

 UMID: 060a2b340101010501010d43-13-000000-5082dfb6938105cbb072bffffee6f5e5

 

Media manager

 Media tags: no

 

Plug-In

 Name: compoundplug.dll

 Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 15.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\compoundplug

 Format: AVC

 Version: Version 15.0 (Build 361)

 Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.




 

General

 Name: C0085.MP4

 Folder: E:\Video Capture\a7rii

 Type: AVC

 Size: 6.66 GB (6,820,366,575 bytes)

 Created: Tuesday 5 June 2018, 11:34:06

 Modified: Friday 16 March 2018, 18:25:21

 Accessed: Tuesday 5 June 2018, 11:34:06

 Attributes: Archive

 

Streams

 Video: 00:17:35.520, 25.000 fps progressive, 1920x1080x12, AVC

 Audio: 00:17:35.520, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, PCM

 

Summary

 [TCFM]: 863288426505

 

Capture

 Recorded: Friday 16 March 2018 17:07:44

 

ACID information

 ACID chunk: no

 Stretch chunk: no

 Stretch list: no

 Stretch info2: no

 Beat markers: no

 Detected beats: no

 

Other metadata

 Regions/markers: no

 Command markers: no

 UMID: 060a2b340101010501010d43-13-000000-4008b5b6938105d8b072bffffef1396e

 

Media manager

 Media tags: no

 

Plug-In

 Name: compoundplug.dll

 Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 15.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\compoundplug

 Format: AVC

 Version: Version 15.0 (Build 361)

 Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.




 

General

 Name: C0085.MP4

 Folder: E:\Video Capture\a7rii

 Type: AVC

 Size: 6.66 GB (6,820,366,575 bytes)

 Created: Tuesday 5 June 2018, 11:34:06

 Modified: Friday 16 March 2018, 18:25:21

 Accessed: Tuesday 5 June 2018, 11:34:06

 Attributes: Archive

 

Streams

 Video: 00:17:35.520, 25.000 fps progressive, 1920x1080x12, AVC

 Audio: 00:17:35.520, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, PCM

 

Summary

 [TCFM]: 863288426505

 

Capture

 Recorded: Friday 16 March 2018 17:07:44

 

ACID information

 ACID chunk: no

 Stretch chunk: no

 Stretch list: no

 Stretch info2: no

 Beat markers: no

 Detected beats: no

 

Other metadata

 Regions/markers: no

 Command markers: no

 UMID: 060a2b340101010501010d43-13-000000-4008b5b6938105d8b072bffffef1396e

 

Media manager

 Media tags: no

 

Plug-In

 Name: compoundplug.dll

 Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 15.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\compoundplug

 Format: AVC

 Version: Version 15.0 (Build 361)

 Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.



 

Sample files from the 3 different Sony cameras on the timeline:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlh82mom3t3ctc7/AAAFDC00gd9BUga3_wfiinyPa?dl=0

 

Graphics Card Model: GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

Status of GPU acceleration of video processing: ON - (I’ve tried turning this off but the problem persists)

 

Project Properties

https://ibb.co/mwdPco


 

Render Settings

https://ibb.co/hTnd3T


Basic PC Spec: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Eight-core 3.89Ghz (not overclocked), RAM: 32 GB, standard SSD drives

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 6/8/2018, 2:10 PM

Welcome to the forum. Congratulations on doing a fine job of framing the problem with supporting data. I would very much like to help you with this but don't have an NVidia GPU.

Have you tried rendering with another encoder and using CPU only?

Have you tried rendering to an uncompressed intermediate like Sony YUV in an AVI wrapper? (Trying to separate decoding, effects processing and encoding).

The files I downloaded appear to me to identical even though they are reported to be from three different cameras.

Musicvid wrote on 6/8/2018, 2:25 PM

Try this ancient fix.

Open a new project. It would take a script to fix the old one.

Turn ON Quantize to Frames

Turn ON Snappingk

Add your Events to the timeline

If you have any gaps between Events, fill them with an Empty Event or Black Event. Makes no difference.

It's the lack of frame quantzation that often causes this.

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/8/2018, 2:49 PM

Welcome to the forum. Congratulations on doing a fine job of framing the problem with supporting data. I would very much like to help you with this but don't have an NVidia GPU.

Have you tried rendering with another encoder and using CPU only?

Have you tried rendering to an uncompressed intermediate like Sony YUV in an AVI wrapper? (Trying to separate decoding, effects processing and encoding).

The files I downloaded appear to me to identical even though they are reported to be from three different cameras.

Thanks for the welcome and for your reply.

I just tried rendering via a ProRes intermediate and unfortunately, the same problem exists, although with a very reduced level of glitches.

I'll try the Sony YUV next and see how that goes.

Not sure what happened with the file uploads, they should be different clips now if you look at the link above again.

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/8/2018, 2:53 PM

Turn ON Quantize to Frames

Turn ON Snappingk

It's the lack of frame quantzation that often causes this.

Quantize to Frames and Snapping are settings I always have turned on and is the case here too. It would seem that this isn't my issue in this case. I'm still baffled!

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/8/2018, 2:59 PM

Have you tried rendering to an uncompressed intermediate like Sony YUV in an AVI wrapper?

I tried this and the glitches look even more severe. Disabling the GPU had no effect, unfortunately.

john_dennis wrote on 6/8/2018, 3:43 PM

We have eliminated output encoders. Could you share the project minus the media? Doing so will expose all the filters and crops, etc.

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/8/2018, 4:46 PM

We have eliminated output encoders. Could you share the project minus the media? Doing so will expose all the filters and crops, etc.

Thank you, here you go: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gq9lvmir09upxrd/Project%20File.veg?dl=0

 

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/8/2018, 5:58 PM

For anybody else that might encounter this same issue, I've found a workaround and the attached image might explain it better visually. I restructured the edit layout similar to "B" in the attached image. Obviously, the output of A and B will be the very same in theory. However, the "random frames" glitch goes away when I ensure that only 1 video track is visible for any given point of the timeline. i.e. "B"

image: https://ibb.co/gxWrq8

It would be great to get this resolved properly though without the need to do the workaround.

BTW, I raised an official support ticket on Magix.com about 48 hours but no response as of yet. Are they experiencing difficulties with offering support?

john_dennis wrote on 6/8/2018, 6:14 PM

Unfortunately, I haven't started my trial of Vegas Pro 15, I'm going to have to defer to others who are more current that I am. I'll keep the project file for when I do start my trial, though.

I will make two housekeeping comments, though.

1) For a progressive project you don't need to set a Deinterlace Method.

2) Why is a Vegas 15 project using the Vegas 14 Prerender Files Folder?

Musicvid wrote on 6/8/2018, 7:04 PM

In your Project Media folder, try deleting all media, even unused. Then load them back in. This worked for me once in V2, but I never had the problem in V8 going forward.

Sometimes a patched module hatches an ancient bug but that would be a longshot.

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/9/2018, 2:13 AM

@john_dennis Thanks for your assistance. Good housekeeping points.

@Musicvid I tried that but unfortunately it hasn’t worked.

I have managed to render the file out artefact free using my workaround above. It’s not ideal but it works. Hopefully Vegas developers will see this thread and resolve the issue.

NickHope wrote on 6/9/2018, 2:17 AM

Thanks for following the request to supply comprehensive info. Note that you can also post images directly to the forum with this button and they will expand to full size when they are clicked.

In your project, what are the 3 media names that correspond to the 3 media files that you have provided?

There are a lot 3rd-party FX involved in this project (that I don't have):

Which of these are active on an event/track/project level when the glitches occur?

If you disable all these FX, do you still get the issue? If not, then re-enable them one by one until you find the culprit by process of elimination.

Finally, is the output less glitchy if you render MAGIX AVC in "Mainconcept AVC" encode mode instead of "NV Encoder" mode?

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/9/2018, 2:24 AM

Thanks Nick, I’m just about to leave for a shoot but I’ll try your suggestions when I get home tonight.

j.cloninger wrote on 6/9/2018, 8:49 AM

I had the same problems like this and the common denominator was NewBlue FX plugins. I read somewhere to only use the OFX version of them so I uninstalled and only installed the OFX type. Most of the problems went away but they popped back up. I removed all NBFX and adapted my workflow to use the native Vegas coloring tools (except for the chroma Keyer, which I use Boris' which is amazing). Since I did that I don't have the issue you are having. It's sad because NBFX has some great plugins and I liked them. Every computer has a different setup of hardware and drivers and unfortunately, Vegas can be finicky. I've found that plugins are usually the root cause to most problems and sometimes even if they're not being used but are installed can still cause a problem. Why? I don't know.

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/12/2018, 7:11 AM

The update to this is that the issue seems to have resolved itself and I have no idea why. I've since completed other projects and I came back into this project to try the suggestion of removing NewBlue FX (apart from OFX). I didn't get as far as that because I tried rendering out a sequence and it worked perfectly! Go figure.

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 6/12/2018, 8:59 AM

Here's the official reply from Magix support:

To resolve this issue please do the following.  Right click on the VEGAS desktop icon. Select Properties in the context menu, then the Compatibility tab. Check the option "Override high DPI scaling behavior". There is a drop down menu that will become active. Select “Application” from the drop down menu. Click apply and OK.

I've implemented the setting and will let you all know how it works out for me long term :)

 

Irish-Vegas-User wrote on 11/19/2018, 11:47 AM

Another update for those following. After a fresh re-install of Windows 10 today, I installed Vegas 15 (latest build) and tried rendering to a HEVC mp4 file. Same issue arose with the random frame glitch. So, I just did one thing to fix the issue. I uninstalled the bundled HitFilm FX that installs with Vegas 15. Problem solved!
(well at least for now anyway).