Slightly different colors from original media to imported media

ScrapyardFilms wrote on 5/18/2021, 2:41 PM

Hello! I'm helping a user out on the VEGAS Pro Reddit forums (https://www.reddit.com/r/VegasPro/comments/nf0qhp/nikon_footage_looks_washed_out/) and I've come across a users issue that I am not sure why it's happening to them.

They have some footage recorded on a Nikon D5300 and D7000 and when viewing it in VLC, the colors look natural and as they should. When they import it into VEGAS, the colors change a little bit and lean a little on the warmer side.

What's interesting is that when the footage is imported in to Resolve, it looks identical to the colors that VLC plays leading me to believe there's some setting in VEGAS that could possibly be changed or VEGAS is interpreting this footage slightly incorrectly.

You can see how the colors are a bit different and that's clearly showed by the vectors scope. If anyone has any suggestions as to why this would happen, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Comparison Screenshots:

Here's a link to download the test video:

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/5cd4dd4c32ad53a86c79f0698ec705f720210518183747/21aa4b

Here's a copy of the media Info of the test video:

General
Complete name                            :
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt   2007.09 (qt /niko)
File size                                : 41.0 MiB
Duration                                 : 20 s 896 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 16.5 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2040-02-06 06:28:15
Tagged date                              : UTC 2040-02-06 06:28:15
NCDT                                     : NCTG

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 20 s 896 ms
Bit rate                                 : 14.8 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.299
Stream size                              : 37.0 MiB (90%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2040-02-06 06:28:15
Tagged date                              : UTC 2040-02-06 06:28:15
Color range                              : Full
Color primaries                          : BT.709
transfer_characteristics_Original        : BT.470 System M
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed
Codec ID                                 : sowt
Duration                                 : 20 s 835 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 3.81 MiB (9%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2040-02-06 06:28:15
Tagged date                              : UTC 2040-02-06 06:28:15

Back to post

Comments

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 10:37 AM

@RogerS Don't you dare question the severity of my OCD!

This doesn't qualify as bang on? To my eyes, the WB effect is reducing the reds a tad. So I could dial back the amber from A2 to A1. I did consider that when I was testing, but I wasn't sure and I generally prefer be on the amber side than the blue side. I'll go back to A1 if you think that's better though. And in post I can use the WB effect to make it even more accurate. Although depending on where you click with the eye dropper, the effect does different things. So not sure how reliable that is.

Pre

Post

Didn't know what the 96% and 90% meant. I guessed it was referring to exposure. That's why I asked.

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 10:43 AM

I'll work on the exposure stuff later today.

adis-a3097 wrote on 5/20/2021, 11:00 AM

Uncheck the "Studio RGB" box in Video Scope Settings as it scales differently when checked:

😉

RogerS wrote on 5/20/2021, 11:05 AM

If you want to make it in color correction you're going to have to ramp up the OCD a bit : ) Having a calibrated screen also helps for visual judgment.

Yes, I'd dial it back to A1 and test again. Such differences are 100% correctable in post (if you don't over-expose; biggest problem with incorrect white balance is that a channel will clip) but if you don't have to correct it's better.

I say get it to neutral first and you can warm it up with the temp/tint sliders under WB if you so choose. You can even save the final values as a preset and apply to every clip in the future if you always shoot the same way.

On the eyedropper don't click a single point. Click once, hold it down and drag until it turns into a rectangle. That should sample the entire area and give a more accurate reading.

96% or 90% is exposure though depending on the tool the scale is 0-255 instead of 0% to 100%. This is a minor difference and let's see where it falls after you reduce in-camera exposure.

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 11:07 AM

@adis-a3097

The white card is not where my face would be in that clip. In the clip I'm playing with the card is at 85%, and when I uncheck studio RGB it drops to 79-80%. So it's underexposed?

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 11:09 AM

On the eyedropper don't click a single point. Click once, hold it down and drag until it turns into a rectangle. That should sample the entire area and give a more accurate reading.

Pro tip!

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 11:23 AM

Yes, I'd dial it back to A1 and test again. Such differences are 100% correctable in post (if you don't over-expose; biggest problem with incorrect white balance is that a channel will clip) but if you don't have to correct it's better.

Sticking with A2. The WB effect seems to be making a smaller adjustment with A2 than with A1.

adis-a3097 wrote on 5/20/2021, 11:23 AM

@adis-a3097

The white card is not where my face would be in that clip. In the clip I'm playing with the card is at 85%, and when I uncheck studio RGB it drops to 79-80%. So it's underexposed?

Well, in the clip that ScrapyardFilms uploaded the white card is at 96. Different clips, different in camera settings maybe? :)

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 11:26 AM

@adis-a3097

Same camera setting I believe, but maybe the soft box was more directly on the card in that position?

adis-a3097 wrote on 5/20/2021, 11:57 AM

Possibly. :)

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 12:07 PM

Uncheck the "Studio RGB" box in Video Scope Settings as it scales differently when checked:

😉

@adis-a3097

btw, I should always keep that unchecked? Why? What's the difference?

Marco. wrote on 5/20/2021, 12:17 PM

If it is unchecked Vectorscope and Waveform would not correspond to the displayed levels. Check yourself via a standardized test pattern and gradient.

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 12:20 PM

@Marco.

Not following, could you elaborate?

Marco. wrote on 5/20/2021, 12:25 PM

Test yourself. Put two generated media into your timeline, the default Color Gradient (which is a grayscale ranging from RGB 0 up to 255) and the Color Bar (PAL).

Now see what the waveform monitors shows for the gradient and what the vectorscopes shows for the single colors of the color bar. Now turn this videoscopes Studio RGB option on and off.

adis-a3097 wrote on 5/20/2021, 1:03 PM

Uncheck the "Studio RGB" box in Video Scope Settings as it scales differently when checked:

😉

@adis-a3097

btw, I should always keep that unchecked? Why? What's the difference?

Well, you have to know what you are measuring; your clip is "full range", so checking the Studio RGB box will show overs (>100%) and unders (<0%), since Studio RGB's 0%-100% scale is related to 16-235 level range, or "limited", and not to 0-255 level range or "full". It also depends on what Pixel format you choose (video levels or full range). Funny how your clip isn't affected by Pixel format flip though...

So, no, not always, just sometimes. :)

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 1:04 PM

@Marco.

Either I can't follow the instructions properly, or don't know what I'm looking at. Can you dumb it down for me a bit? Or just tell what setting I should be using!

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 1:07 PM

@adis-a3097

So if I leave the Studio RGB box checked, it may show certain things as clipped even though they are not?

Marco. wrote on 5/20/2021, 1:22 PM

I have this option (almost) always checked. It then shows the color saturation and video levels right as I see them in the preview.

Though both option would signal clipped levels (just at different positions).

adis-a3097 wrote on 5/20/2021, 1:22 PM

@adis-a3097

So if I leave the Studio RGB box checked, it may show certain things as clipped even though they are not?

Yes.

But do what Marco said: go to Media generator tab/test patern and drag/drop SMPTE Bar (PAL) into the Time line. Play with Video Scopes Settings, see what happens. :)

Marco. wrote on 5/20/2021, 1:29 PM

Or use same pattern I used (> download).

Apply the Level FX and use the preset "Studio RGB to Computer RGB" to see how clipping is shown in both videoscopes options.

adis-a3097 wrote on 5/20/2021, 1:31 PM

Here's some video test patterns:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1piYIGaKamryy_DmKkVKEHwxywjzH5T7d/view?usp=sharing

Switching between full range and video levels under Pixel format does show different results in RGB parade and Waveform monitor, as opposed to SMPTE Bars from Media Generator.

Musicvid wrote on 5/20/2021, 4:14 PM

sss-v wrote on 5/19/2021, 4:52 PM

@Marco.

I didn't encode anything in HandBrake. I just imported the original camera file in HandBrake and used preview to see what it looked like since @Musicvid said that HandBrake gets both the levels and colors right.

The Straw Man says, "Musicvid said the file encoded in Handbrake gets both the levels and colors right." Musicvid posted a graphic of the Handbrake-encoded file showing the matching red vector. Musicvid said nothing about the Handbrake GUI or preview levels. Thanks for not putting words in Musicvid's mouth. Makes him touchy.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Musicvid wrote on 5/20/2021, 4:59 PM

@Marco.

Thank you for that test pattern! It's a keeper; wish I'd thought of it.

It told me straightaway I had the waveform levels set to Studio, although I use the histo for my leveling.

sss-v wrote on 5/20/2021, 5:55 PM

@Musicvid

Not so sure about people who talk about themselves in third person! ;-P

I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. Put it down to my lack of video knowledge and lack of sleep from spending too much time on this issue.

You made me doubt my solution again though. It seems everyone agreed that Vegas was getting the levels right and VLC was getting the levels wrong. In HandBrake (preview) the levels were similar to Vegas. So me using HandBrake (and Vegas) as reference for the levels was correct?

I just went a couple of rounds with some kind of food poisoning, got knocked down but made it through. I think I'll investigate the exposure stuff tomorrow.

Thanks again everyone. I wasn't expecting this much help!

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