Smart Upscale 480 to 1080

lilpengy wrote on 5/16/2020, 8:14 PM

I have read everything and still have no idea what is doing what.

First of all, I can't believe there is NOTHING from Magix in the manual or otherwise that tells you how to use this plugin. The help file is useless.

Youtube videos are all over the place, forum discussions here and at the cow are inconclusive

I've tested and I really can't see any difference regardless if I do any of the following. I know what you are going to say, "good that means it's working, it not supposed to look better, just the same but bigger". BUT when using 2.25 it doesn't increase the size while rendering or in final product and so it's still got bars. Also if I did A below and then B or C technically it SHOULD look different the one that I didn't use smart upscale on should look worse than B or C.

Here are the 3 different ways I've tried it. Can anyone tell me at least what is the way the plugin is meant to work and any tips on how I can figure out if it's actually working.

A: just render at new size

Put the 480 video into timeline
change properties to 1920x1080
render at 1920 by 10 80

B: use smart upscale in original properties

Click on the video in Project media and add smart upscale on the media level (I've been told you can do it at the timeline level but you need to make sure that it's put before pan/crop)
Change the size to 2.25 which mathematically would bring 480 to 1080 (I also tried it at just 2)
Put the 480 video into timeline
render at 1920 x1080

C: use smart upscale with new properties

Click on the video in Project media and add smart upscale on the media level (I've been told you can do it at the timeline level but you need to make sure that it's put before pan/crop)
Change the size to 2.25 which mathematically would bring 480 to 1080 (I also tried it at just 2)
Put the 480 video into timeline
change properties to 1920x1080
render at 1920 x 480

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 5/16/2020, 9:02 PM

Why do you want to upscale 480p to 1080p?

lilpengy wrote on 5/16/2020, 9:20 PM

Why do you want to upscale 480p to 1080p?

Because I have old videos that are 720 x 480 that people would like to purchase if I color correct, add in some new content and make them 1920 x 1080

3POINT wrote on 5/17/2020, 12:01 AM

I've tested and I really can't see any difference regardless

Just leave it 480, your HDTV does the smart upscaling. Maybe it's a good selling argument that your videos are FHD, but nevertheless they still will look as SD.

fifonik wrote on 5/17/2020, 12:02 AM

I do not really understood how you tested.

I created png image (size 720*480):

Created a new VP project (1920*1080, 25fps progressive), dropped the image on timeline. Then rendered a few times to 1920*1080 using MagicYUV (lossless):

1. Rendered "as is" to NoSmartUpscale.avi

2. Added Smart Upscale (scale=2.25) and rendered as Media FX and MediaFX.avi

3. Removed the Media FX, added Smart Upscale as Event FX before Pan/Crop (scale=2.25) and rendered as BeforeCrop.avi

4. Moved the Event FX after Pan/Crop (based by in-build help Smart Upscale should not be used after Pan/Crop) and rendered as AfterCrop.avi

Then created a new project 1920x1080 and put png src and 4 renders (from the steps above) there and checked diffs.

Observations:

- Smart upscale produces sharper edges.

- No differences between MediaFX.avi and BeforeCrop.avi

- BeforeCrop.avi better than AfterCrop.avi (less differences between src and BeforeCrop.avi then src and AfterCrop.avi)

- AfterCrop.avi better then NoSmartUpscale.avi

- BeforeCrop.avi better then NoSmartUpscale.avi (preview best | full, no scale video to preview windows == 100%):

=> Differences between Smart Upscale and no smart upscale are noticeable and can be checked easily.

Former user wrote on 5/17/2020, 8:55 AM

I just feel surely a video editor that takes considerable time and resources to upscale a 480p image to 1080p has to be doing it better than the average tv that does it in real time from 1/25th to 1/60th's of a second. If there are dedicated chips on tv's that do this then maybe things become equal, but there are possibly good upscaling tv's and bad ones. if you take the effort to do it then can be better assured of a quality result.

I took a 480p video clip from the internet, upscaled it to 1080p, and I would think everyone can tell the difference. I don't think there's any cheating such as aggressive sharpening it does seem like extra detail has been created. Look at the girl's eyes and the cat's fur

Former user wrote on 5/17/2020, 9:21 AM

Generally you will find that hardware upscaling is superior to software. I don't know why, but it is.

Marco. wrote on 5/17/2020, 10:11 AM

Same is for deinterlacing. Usually the hardware deinterlacer of TVs do a better job than common software deinterlacer.

wwaag wrote on 5/17/2020, 11:10 AM

"I don't know why, but it is."

This reminds me of a segment by Bill Maher, a comedian, who exploits popular myths in a humorous way. The assumption always seems to be--if its hardware-based, it's superior. By the same logic, hardware encoding should always be superior to software encoding--which is clearly not the case. By doing it through software, the editor can control exactly what uprezzing resizers are used (there are quite a few) and what types of filters to apply afterward. As I see it, the primary advantage of hardware is that it's "easy"--we don't have to do anything. Just my nickel's worth.

Former user wrote on 5/17/2020, 11:48 AM

Show me some tests where a software uprezzing is better than hardware. I have used both hardware and software and hardware, in my experience, has always been better. When I say I don't know why, it doesn't mean I am buying into a myth, it means I don't understand the technical reasons. And from my experience, hardware encoding has been superior, and believe me I had a lot of experience in this since I used to do encoding for commercial videos. I don't have access to that hardware anymore or I would publish my tests.

lilpengy wrote on 5/17/2020, 12:35 PM

I appreciate everyone's comments but what am i doing wrong that im still getting bars on the sides even though im enlarging 2.25? It should be cutting off top and bottom not showing black bars

Marco. wrote on 5/17/2020, 12:54 PM

"what am i doing wrong that im still getting bars on the sides"

Because the aspect ratio of source and output does not match.

lilpengy wrote on 5/17/2020, 1:04 PM

"what am i doing wrong that im still getting bars on the sides"

Because the aspect ratio of source and output does not match.

Isnt that the reason we are setting it to 2.25 so its now multiplying 480 by 2.25?

john_dennis wrote on 5/17/2020, 1:09 PM

@lilpengy

If your customers like the look of your video, why do you think they will like it better if it is stretched to fit a different aspect ratio?

Some people are going to look fatter...

Some wheels are going to be egg shaped...

Some clocks are going to look oblong...

Marco. wrote on 5/17/2020, 1:43 PM

"Isnt that the reason we are setting it to 2.25 so its now multiplying 480 by 2.25?"

It multiplies the whole frame size, not the aspect ratio.

Marco. wrote on 5/17/2020, 2:21 PM

To get rid of the black borders you could use Pan/Crop and the "Match Output Aspect" of the context menu.

wwaag wrote on 5/17/2020, 3:51 PM

@lilpengy

How about uploading a sample clip somewhere that can be downloaded?

Musicvid wrote on 5/17/2020, 6:14 PM

Your 720x480 video is at DVD storage aspect. SD/DV Widescreen display aspect is not 16:9. Therefore, there may be thin black bars in the 1080p output. Is that what you are seeing?

Fortunately there is a switch for that. It is in Project Properties, and the checkbox is called "Adjust media to match source or render settings."

Check that and render. Does that help?