Time for Vegas Pro to revamp the Waveform & Vectorscopes

FTech wrote on 9/15/2017, 12:51 AM

Hi all,

I've been a Vegas user since version 4. Over the years, new features and functions are added with every new release. From it's earliest beginnings to an audio editor to transforming into a full-featured powerful NLE. There is one feature that's been unchanged for almost a decade is their waveform & vector-scope displays. You must be thinking what's wrong with those displays? I would like to show how the displays can be improved and what's currently lacking.

Here is a RGB parade display. Notice those interlacing black lines? The RGB parade would look a lot better if it didn't have those missing lines.

Here is a RGB parade from a competitor. Much more vibrant and easier to see information compared to the dim, "8-bit graphics" look from Vegas.

Would like to see the RGB overlay option. Easier to make finer white-balance adjustments than having all 3 channels displayed separately.

What would I like to see implemented into future versions of Vegas Pro? Here is an old-school waveform monitor from Tektronix with it's various controls. Let the user have the ability to adjust the "intensity" of the waveform. It can be bright or dim according to the users choice. I would love it if the software engineers can implement an "intensity" adjustment to all the waveforms such as RGB parade, histogram, Waveform, and Vector-scope.

The Vector-scope can use a bit of a make-over. Not only allow an "intensity" adjustment, BUT the ability to add -I & -Q lines. Here is an example:

In particular the -I line is very important as EVERY skin tone falls right on that line. It's very helpful to have this line implemented in future versions to aid in colour correction.

Summary

  • ability to increase or decrease the intensity of all the waveform displays (RGB, Vector-scope, Historgram, etc)
  • add -I and -Q lines for the vector-scope
  • make the waveforms in full resolution. Looks 8-bitish. The intensity dial would fix this.
  • add an RGB overlay display.
  • add a variable magnification feature for the vector-scope. For example adjustments from 1x to 20x. Graticule should stay a fixed size.

It's been well over a decade the scopes in Vegas remains unchanged. Let's see Magix and the team from Madison improve this aspect in their product.

FTech

 

Last changed by FTech

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Comments

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/15/2017, 2:26 AM

For me the ability to increase or decrease the intensity of a waveform display does not add much value.

The more important points would be

- be make the scale constistent with 10 and 12bit (I do not like the 0..255 figures because they are simply wrong)

- to improve the playback behaviour if these instruments are enabled

- and for HDR grading to allow that the luminance scale can be switched also to nits in the future.

That would add value for me.

john_dennis wrote on 9/15/2017, 8:44 AM

FTech,

I appreciate your coherent, well-written feature request.

Musicvid wrote on 9/15/2017, 10:33 AM

Add the ability to switch between linear/log histogram displays.

FTech wrote on 9/15/2017, 6:00 PM

For me the ability to increase or decrease the intensity of a waveform display does not add much value.

The more important points would be

- be make the scale constistent with 10 and 12bit (I do not like the 0..255 figures because they are simply wrong)

- to improve the playback behaviour if these instruments are enabled

- and for HDR grading to allow that the luminance scale can be switched also to nits in the future.

That would add value for me.


Good point on the histogram's inability to change the scale from 0-255 to 0-1023 when working in 10-bit video. HDR luminance scale with nits is a good one for the future.

Add the ability to switch between linear/log histogram displays.


Logarithmic scale to mimic what the eye sees? Put that one in the bucket list as well.

FTech,

I appreciate your coherent, well-written feature request.


Thank you john_dennis. I'm searching to where on the Magix website to post this on their feature request page, IF they even have one.

 

FTech

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900x 12 Core @ 3.8Ghz (non-overclocked) OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit RAM: G.Skill FlareX 16 GB DDR4 @ 3200Mhz (14-14-14-28) @ 1.365v (Tightened timings via DRAM Calculator) Graphics Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1660 6GB GDDR5 (driver v445.75) Sound Card: Sound Blaster Z (driver Sep 27, 2019) Storage: Samsung 970 EVO Plus M.2 1TB; Seagate Baracuda 6TB (System Managed Swap File) Mobo: ASUS ROG STRIX X570-F GAMING (bios 1407) PSU: Corsair RM850x Blu-Ray Burner: Asus BW-16D1HT 16x (firmware 3.10) Case: Fractal Design Define R6 w/USB-C

Musicvid wrote on 9/15/2017, 7:00 PM


Logarithmic scale to mimic what the eye sees? Put that one in the bucket list as well.

What on earth are you talking about???

You see, people have been complaining for fifteen years that they can't relate to the LOG histogram in Vegas Pro because it doesn't look like the LINEAR histo in Photoshop.

Make your own requests, but please never, ever judge another's.

__________________________________________________________

FEATURE REQUEST Revised, unless already present in 15:

" Add a linear histogram option, and the ability to toggle between the two. "

 

Marco. wrote on 9/18/2017, 5:07 AM

Just some background infos. The math behind the Vegas Pro histogram is:

a = amount of pixels of current frame (which should match project dimension) = 2^b

b = ln(a)/ln(2) = 100 % height of histogram bar

So if there is a histogram bar of 50 % height, the math to find how much pixels this bar represents is:

2^(b/2)

Or for a bar of 10 % height:

2^(b/10)

In an HD project of 1920 x 1080 pixels dimension only 4 pixels of same luma value will generate a histogram bar of 10 percent height.

Plotted into a graph it looks like this:

And to achieve a linear histogram like this:

It would need this pixel/luma ratio (click small image below to enlarge):

 

aboammar wrote on 9/18/2017, 12:36 PM

Hi all,

I've been a Vegas user since version 4. Over the years, new features and functions are added with every new release. From it's earliest beginnings to an audio editor to transforming into a full-featured powerful NLE. There is one feature that's been unchanged for almost a decade is their waveform & vector-scope displays. You must be thinking what's wrong with those displays? I would like to show how the displays can be improved and what's currently lacking.

Here is a RGB parade display. Notice those interlacing black lines? The RGB parade would look a lot better if it didn't have those missing lines.

Here is a RGB parade from a competitor. Much more vibrant and easier to see information compared to the dim, "8-bit graphics" look from Vegas.

Would like to see the RGB overlay option. Easier to make finer white-balance adjustments than having all 3 channels displayed separately.

What would I like to see implemented into future versions of Vegas Pro? Here is an old-school waveform monitor from Tektronix with it's various controls. Let the user have the ability to adjust the "intensity" of the waveform. It can be bright or dim according to the users choice. I would love it if the software engineers can implement an "intensity" adjustment to all the waveforms such as RGB parade, histogram, Waveform, and Vector-scope.

The Vector-scope can use a bit of a make-over. Not only allow an "intensity" adjustment, BUT the ability to add -I & -Q lines. Here is an example:

In particular the -I line is very important as EVERY skin tone falls right on that line. It's very helpful to have this line implemented in future versions to aid in colour correction.

Summary

  • ability to increase or decrease the intensity of all the waveform displays (RGB, Vector-scope, Historgram, etc)
  • add -I and -Q lines for the vector-scope
  • make the waveforms in full resolution. Looks 8-bitish. The intensity dial would fix this.
  • add an RGB overlay display.
  • add a variable magnification feature for the vector-scope. For example adjustments from 1x to 20x. Graticule should stay a fixed size.

It's been well over a decade the scopes in Vegas remains unchanged. Let's see Magix and the team from Madison improve this aspect in their product.

FTech

 

Totally agree with you. The waveform and vector-scope are already overdue for new interface update!

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FTech wrote on 9/18/2017, 3:08 PM


Logarithmic scale to mimic what the eye sees? Put that one in the bucket list as well.

What on earth are you talking about???

You see, people have been complaining for fifteen years that they can't relate to the LOG histogram in Vegas Pro because it doesn't look like the LINEAR histo in Photoshop.

Make your own requests, but please never, ever judge another's.

__________________________________________________________

FEATURE REQUEST Revised, unless already present in 15:

" Add a linear histogram option, and the ability to toggle between the two. "

 


MusicVid, what did I say to get you upset? Sheesh, I have no idea people have been complaining for 15 years about the histogram in Vegas. Let alone know the Histogram is logarithmic and it's not mentioned anywhere on their manual about this. We all have bucket list, grocery list, shopping list, whatever you call it for Vegas Pro. Mine would be improving their waveform and vector scope. Adding a linear/logarithmic toggle switch would be a good one like you mentioned.

Noticed you changed your post 10 times, I wonder what was the original response... hehehe? I do remember you said, "Your just not there yet." That statement you removed from your response. Yes, I'm not there yet I do admit. Working in TV mobile broadcasts for 24 years, did four TED Conferences, and four Olympics games. Yep, I'm not there yet :)

Marco. Thank you for the detailed response and the math involved for creating the histogram. Hopefully you can pass this thread along to the software development team to look into improving the scopes.

FTech

Last changed by FTech on 9/18/2017, 7:16 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900x 12 Core @ 3.8Ghz (non-overclocked) OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit RAM: G.Skill FlareX 16 GB DDR4 @ 3200Mhz (14-14-14-28) @ 1.365v (Tightened timings via DRAM Calculator) Graphics Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1660 6GB GDDR5 (driver v445.75) Sound Card: Sound Blaster Z (driver Sep 27, 2019) Storage: Samsung 970 EVO Plus M.2 1TB; Seagate Baracuda 6TB (System Managed Swap File) Mobo: ASUS ROG STRIX X570-F GAMING (bios 1407) PSU: Corsair RM850x Blu-Ray Burner: Asus BW-16D1HT 16x (firmware 3.10) Case: Fractal Design Define R6 w/USB-C

Musicvid wrote on 9/18/2017, 7:19 PM

Please take note that I did not judge or suggest you trash your cosmetic feature requests.