Vegas Pro 17 and Vegasaur Chapter Markers

crown2020 wrote on 6/28/2020, 4:52 PM

This MAY be a question better suited for the Vegasaur tech support team. I thought I would ask it here since it does generally work well with Vegas Pro 17. I have (3) clips. The source file is a .mp4 for all (3) clips. Total runtime for all clips is less than 120 min. I used Vegasaur to "Instant Render" the DVD as an .iso file. The (3) chapter markers I created with Vegasaur are not present in the output DVD iso file Vegasaur created. I'm using VLC to playback the output file. Why are the markers not showing up in the output file? I'm attaching the "media info" for all three clips. Many thanks, in advance, to anyone that can help with this relatively elementary issue, (so it seems). What am I missing here, besides sleep?

Clip 1:

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Owner\Videos\Customer Raw Data\WABC - COVID 19 Series - 2020\Sunday PM 04-19-20.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/mp41/isom/avc1)
File size                                : 815 MiB
Duration                                 : 19 min 54 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 5 726 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-04-19 15:39:56
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-04-19 15:39:56

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4
Format settings                          : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 5 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 19 min 54 s
Bit rate                                 : 5 469 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.110
Stream size                              : 779 MiB (96%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 159 r10 1771b55
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=34 / lookahead_threads=5 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / stitchable=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=infinite / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=5 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=5500 / vbv_bufsize=15000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-04-19 15:39:56
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-04-19 15:39:56
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 19 min 54 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 253 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 36.1 MiB (4%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-04-19 15:39:56
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-04-19 15:39:56

Clip 2:

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Owner\Videos\Customer Raw Data\WABC - COVID 19 Series - 2020\Sunday PM 04-26-20.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/mp41/isom/avc1)
File size                                : 1 011 MiB
Duration                                 : 24 min 39 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 5 731 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-04-26 03:43:21
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-04-26 03:43:21

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4
Format settings                          : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 5 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 24 min 39 s
Bit rate                                 : 5 474 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.110
Stream size                              : 965 MiB (96%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 160 r10 33f9e14
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=34 / lookahead_threads=5 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / stitchable=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=infinite / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=5 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=5500 / vbv_bufsize=15000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-04-26 03:43:21
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-04-26 03:43:21
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 24 min 39 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 253 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 44.7 MiB (4%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-04-26 03:43:21
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-04-26 03:43:21

Clip 3:

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Owner\Videos\Customer Raw Data\WABC - COVID 19 Series - 2020\Sunday PM 05-03-20.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/mp41/isom/avc1)
File size                                : 1.16 GiB
Duration                                 : 28 min 49 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 5 747 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-05-04 00:48:32
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-05-04 00:48:32

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4
Format settings                          : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 5 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 28 min 49 s
Bit rate                                 : 5 489 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.088
Stream size                              : 1.11 GiB (96%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 160 r10 33f9e14
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=34 / lookahead_threads=5 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / stitchable=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=infinite / keyint_min=29 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=5 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=5500 / vbv_bufsize=15000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-05-04 00:48:32
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-05-04 00:48:32
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 28 min 49 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 253 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 52.2 MiB (4%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-05-04 00:48:32
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-05-04 00:48:32

Again, many thanks for those that try and help. I'm once again perplexed.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that sometimes, the encode to DVD spec does not complete. When this happens, I obviously can't check the final results in VLC. But, it does pose the question as to why the encode is freezing to began with and if the issues are related, (regarding the lack of chapters in the output file). Here is a screen shot of where it stopped on this last try.

I'm guessing it failed in clip 3. It could have been the end of clip 2. It's worth noting that these files were obtained from Vimeo with permission from the copyright holder.

 

Comments

Marco. wrote on 6/29/2020, 3:09 AM

Vegasaur creates a separate chapter marker file and you need to import this chapter marker file into DVD Architect in addition to your video source file

crown2020 wrote on 6/29/2020, 9:49 AM

@Marco., Thank you for your response. That would help if I used DVDA. As indicated above, that is not my current process. I'm using the "Instant DVD" to an iso feature, under render, of Vegasaur.

Joelson_Forte wrote on 6/29/2020, 1:58 PM

Here the Vegasaur Instant DVD works well and creates the chapter markers correctly. An proof of this is that if the ISO generated is opened and the (.IFO) file of final DVD  is placed on the Vegas timeline and you will see the chapter markers.

The VLC player also displays chapters correctly.

Some players, such as Windows Media Player and Windows Media Player Classic, cannot read DVD chapters if the file has the extension (.ISO).

An alternative way to make these players recognize the chapters directly in the ISO file is to execute the file (.IFO) that is inside the VIDEO_TS folder.

Another way is to extract the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders from the ISO file to a new folder and only then play them on these players so that the chapters are recognized. See video bellow.

 

crown2020 wrote on 6/29/2020, 7:56 PM

@Joelson_Forte, I think there is something wrong with this file(s). Here is a screen shot of a render that only gave me about 20 min of a 2 hour encode before Vegas 17 froze. OVER 9 hours it tried to encode for a 2 hour clip and still did not succeed. The odd thing is it will PLAY fine in VLC. It just won't convert to DVD Spec without Vegas Freezing.

Joelson_Forte wrote on 6/29/2020, 8:15 PM

That is a possibility. But there should be no errors in the rendering process, even if your progressive files are converted to interlaced during the encoding process for DVD.

Try disable the Vegas 17 native "so4compoundplug" encoder so that the old "compoundplug" encoder is used to recognize these files and try to render it again. Maybe this will work. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/avc-xavc-s-issues-in-vp15-16-try-disabling-so4compoundplug-dll--108345/

altarvic wrote on 6/30/2020, 2:29 AM

I think there is something wrong with this file(s).

I see that you use your own render template.

Try to render your project as usual (File > Render As) using your template. Does it work?

crown2020 wrote on 6/30/2020, 11:06 AM

@altarvic, I used (File > Render As) with the default template and no chapter markers of any kind. The video perfectly encoded to an mpeg file BUT only 25:06 of a 32:11 clip. I tested this clip because it was the first of four on the same timeline that I noticed was giving trouble.

As to my custom template used in VegaSaur, the only items changed were bit rates to fit an extra 18 min of video on a 120 min dvd 5. and the aspect ratio to 16:9.

So, while it didn't hang this time, it didn't complete successfully either. Here is the media info for the file I tested:

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Owner\Videos\Customer Raw Data\WABC - COVID 19 Series - 2020\Source Files From Vimeo and WABC Online\AM Services - DVD 1 of 3\Sunday AM 03-22-20.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/mp41/isom/avc1)
File size                                : 1.25 GiB
Duration                                 : 32 min 11 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 5 574 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-03-21 20:11:41
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-03-21 20:11:41

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 5 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 32 min 11 s
Bit rate                                 : 5 313 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.043
Stream size                              : 1.19 GiB (95%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 159 r10 1771b55
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=34 / lookahead_threads=5 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / stitchable=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=infinite / keyint_min=59 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=5 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=5500 / vbv_bufsize=15000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-03-21 20:11:41
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-03-21 20:11:41
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 32 min 11 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 253 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 58.3 MiB (5%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-03-21 20:11:41
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-03-21 20:11:41
 

Any thoughts or additional suggestions?

UPDATE: I retested a set of 14 clips on the same timeline. None of which contained the clip mentioned above. Some were .mpeg and most .mp4 on this 14 clip timeline. I used Vegasaur and my "custom template". The only thing really "custom" about it, was again, the bit rates, and the setting of a 16:9 aspect ratio. It rendered 1:54:51 of a 1:57:03 project. As you can image, no chapter markers because the render did not complete. Very strange.

Again, any ideas?

Musicvid wrote on 6/30/2020, 3:42 PM

Are you clear on the differences and usage between BluRay/DVD chapter marks and Apple-style player chapters for mp4/m4v? I've read Vegasaur will do both.

crown2020 wrote on 6/30/2020, 11:37 PM

@Musicvid, Interesting. I was unaware that VegaSaur could handle anything Apple. Especially with Vegas Pro 17 being the host. I do think I added the chapters correctly using Vegas Pro 17 and Vegasaur. To be honest, MOST of the media information I have posted here is Greek to me. I know the basics. You know, what aspect ratio's are,the difference between a container and the actual codex, some bit rate settings, etc. If you are seeing something in the file log(s) that I'm not. I'm all ears. I think the main reason I'm not seeing the markers is because I can't get the file(s) to encode without Vegas freezing or otherwise rendering an incomplete file(s). Having said that, I DID get a set of .mp4 files, from the same author,0 to encode with the chapter markers just fine, using Vegasaur.

I did try to re encode the source files with Handbrake. In the past, this has helped. I then tried to re encode in Vegas Pro 17. I failed miserably. I have thought about something you said in a previous thread I started concerning broadcast errors. I tired running a previously mentioned troubled file through Video Redo. Either it did not help or I didn't set up something right. I became discouraged and uninstalled the trial that's now expired.

On a side note, when I need markers added directly to an mp4 or m4v, I use Drax. I have recently learned that you had a hand in that project. It works great. Many thanks for what you contributed to the project.

Back to this threads issue, you might benefit from knowing that the source files were most likely encoded with Final Cut Pro. I do know they use some apple and mac equipment. The author seems to think that final cut pro allows him to push his render to varies web platforms with ease. Any ideas on what may be stopping my render(s)? Throw me a bone while I look into these chapter marker differences you mention?

altarvic wrote on 7/1/2020, 7:20 AM

1. Honestly, I didn't understand what you want to get in the end: mp4 file or DVD?

2. If you can't get the render complete, this is the problem. Disable GPU in Preferences, you can even try to re-encode you source files using a third-party converter.

 

crown2020 wrote on 7/1/2020, 9:42 AM

@altarvic, The end result desired is a DVD with chapter markers added by VegaSaur. I'm trying third party software. I'll see how that goes. I'm positive something is not right with the source file(s). Thanks for your reply.

Musicvid wrote on 7/1/2020, 9:57 AM

Are you trying to encode broadcast recordings?

crown2020 wrote on 7/1/2020, 9:57 PM

@Musicvid, I'm not sure what is technically considered a "broadcast recording". Is there anything in the media info I have posted that would indicate it's a broadcast recording?

I'm trying to place some clips on a DVD that were downloaded from Vimeo, (with permission from the copyright holder). I'm using Vegasaur to add the chapter markers at the start of each clip. About 4 markers in this example or 4 clips. The chapter markers can't be added because the render always fails without completion. Sometimes, the output file will began in an odd place. Mostly, it just won't encode completely. What does encode seems in sync (audio and video). It's just not completing. This causes Vegasaur to not be able to add the markers.

I have tried using Vegas Pro 17 the native way, forgetting about the markers, and rendering as an mpeg 2 for testing purposes. Vegas will freeze and I'll have to force close it or It will report that the project has finished but the elapsed time is still counting. Either way, you end up with an unusable file.

Re encoding in Handbrake, (with default settings), did not help. re encoding with DVD Styler did not help. in fact, with DVD styler, the audio and video DID get out of sync. Thoughts? I'm thinking that it's 5 O'Clock somewhere.

Musicvid wrote on 7/1/2020, 10:09 PM

The name of the files imply that they were recorded from a television broadcast.

Can you confirm or deny? It is not a trivial issue if they are to be used in a nonlinear editor, rather than just being played back on your computer.

Here, now you will know all that I know about the subject. The fact that they have been transcoded already may limit your ability to fix them.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/converting-a-ts-file-video-file-to-an-mpg4-video-file--119289/#ca744415

crown2020 wrote on 7/1/2020, 11:21 PM

@Musicvid, Thanks for all the information. I'm grateful. As to what the file names imply, that would be my brain child. I created those file names. Certainly not a "Leave it to Beaver" episode. 😁 Unfortunately, I must have these files on a DVD, (in the end). I WISH they could just go on a thumb drive and call it a day. The real question is what in the world are the AV guys doing to these files to trash them so bad.

Have you heard anything about files encoded in Final Cut causing these types of issues with Vegas Pro?

Musicvid wrote on 7/1/2020, 11:28 PM

The real question is what in the world are the AV guys doing to these files to trash them so bad.

They are recording them, transcoding them, and posting them, all without streamfixing them to trap the broadcast stream errors. I've see hundreds of them. Simple ignorance.

Have you heard anything about files encoded in Final Cut causing these types of issues with Vegas Pro?

No, as long as the formats are compatible.

Got a link to the files you downloaded from Vimeo?

crown2020 wrote on 7/2/2020, 9:27 AM

@Musicvid, Here is the link to just one of the many clips that have been costing me sleep:

https://vimeo.com/399488915

Here is also a link to a video that I CAN encode to Dvd Spec just fine. It was produced by the same people. I'm pretty sure it's recorded on a different TYPE of camera.

Any thoughts on why these types of clips do just fine? (other than the obvious fact that they don't have errors that Vegas seems to care about ).

https://vimeo.com/419446819

You said : "all without streamfixing them to trap the broadcast stream errors"

So, it's not what there doing, it's what they are NOT doing. Gotcha. How would you "trap the broadcast errors" before pushing the video to your favorite platform?

Thanks for taking a look at the links. I appreciate this college lesson, (without the $30,000 dollar cover charge), very much.

Musicvid wrote on 7/2/2020, 11:03 AM

How would you "trap the broadcast errors" before pushing the video to your favorite platform?

VideoRedo TV Suite Version 6