Very slow rendering with Vegas Pro 19

kaylaalg wrote on 5/13/2022, 1:59 AM

Hello! I have been looking to switch off of Wondershare Filmora for a while now as my editing tasks have increased significantly in recent weeks. I decided to try out Vegas Pro after experiencing unresolvable issues with both Adobe Premiere and DaVinci Resolve in the past. I love how Vegas Pro feels and I picked up editing within it really quickly. However, I am experiencing very long rendering times compared to what I am used to with Filmora and I am very confused by it, especially since a couple friends of mine who also edit with Vegas Pro do not experience this mega slow rendering that I am. So I am coming here as a last-ditch effort and if I am still unable to resolve this then I will have to cancel my subscription and hopefully try and get a refund on the annual price I paid.

Most of my videos have a significant amount of cuts to them (every few seconds), with transitions, effects (to both video and audio files), and some subtitles. All of my videos are over 45 minutes long. Filmora handles exporting a 60 minute video in around an hour depending on how much editing there was.

Today I am trying to render and export a 73 minute video. There are minimal edits in this one. I have a handful of cuts, a gaussian blur effect here and there, some audio fading... it's a fairly basic edit. It takes Vegas Pro 20 minutes just to change the 0% to a 1%. I have cancelled the render before the estimated time remaining had stopped climbing, but some quick math gave me around 33 hours to render the file. The average speed I was experiencing was 2.8 FPS.

I quickly did a test to render one of my source files on its own with no edits or changes. Just a simple import and render. In Vegas Pro, it took 50 seconds to reach 1% (average speed around 18 FPS). In Filmora, it took 2 seconds to reach 1%.

I am pretty disappointed and discouraged that I have been trying out all of these higher-end editing programs and encounter issues that either hard stop me or turn me off from wanting to use it. It's my understanding that Filmora is seen as a very basic program for beginner editors, and it does lack some features that I wish I had access to.

All of my details and information are below, and I look forward to a response! Thank you in advance for your help.

---

VEGAS Version & Build: Version 19.0 (Build 550)

Windows Edition & Version: Windows 10 Pro N

Camera/App that created your footage: Open Broadcasting Software (OBS) - MP4 files. OBS recording settings:

I haven't tested out rendering files with different recording settings from OBS, but I have seen that MKV might be better along with adjusting the CQ level.

Your Delivery Destination: YouTube

MediaInfo Report for your source footage: This is just one of my video files that I was using in my project. I record my footage in 3840x1080. You'll see in the sample file I've provided that I record myself and my desktop screen side-by-side and then in the editing program, I import the footage twice and just crop one to me and the other to my screen. This saves a lot of time in editing, as well as space on my PC.

General
Complete name                            : D:\Recordings\YouTube\Star Wars\The Clone Wars Series\007-009 - 102-104 - Malevolence Trilogy\103.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 2.82 GiB
Duration                                 : 22 min 53 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 17.7 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Lavf58.76.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 22 min 53 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 17.5 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 120 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 3.556
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 60.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.070
Stream size                              : 2.79 GiB (99%)
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 22 min 53 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 20.7 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 160 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 3.39 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : Track1
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 22 min 53 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 160 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 26.2 MiB (1%)
Title                                    : Track2
Default                                  : No
Alternate group                          : 1

Text
ID                                       : 1-CC1
Format                                   : EIA-608
Muxing mode                              : SCTE 128 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
Duration                                 : 22 min 53 s
Start time (commands)                    : 1 s 571 ms
Start time                               : 1 s 571 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)
Count of frames before first event       : 125
Type of the first event                  : PopOn

VEGAS Pro File Properties for source footage:

General
  Name: 103.mp4
  Folder: D:\Recordings\YouTube\Star Wars\The Clone Wars Series\007-009 - 102-104 - Malevolence Trilogy
  Type: AVC
  Size: 2.96 GB (3,030,877,027 bytes)
  Created: Tuesday, May 10, 2022, 00:21:40
  Modified: Tuesday, May 10, 2022, 00:44:33
  Accessed: Friday, May 13, 2022, 00:28:33
  Attributes: Archive

Streams
  Video: 00:22:53.450, 60.000 fps progressive, 3840x1080x32, AVC
  Audio 1: 00:22:53.375, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, AAC
  Audio 2: 00:22:53.375, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, AAC

Summary
  [TCFM]: 7

ACID information
  ACID chunk: no
  Stretch chunk: no
  Stretch list: no
  Stretch info2: no
  Beat markers: no
  Detected beats: no

Other metadata
  Regions/markers: no
  Command markers: no

Media manager
  Media tags: no

Plug-In
  Name: so4compoundplug.dll
  Folder: D:\Program Files (x86)\FileIO Plug-Ins\so4compoundplug
  Format: AVC
  Version: Version 1.0 (Build 8532)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

A Sample File: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtdTkkTtj1A3hKhSkLsrKPotcnwNpg (this is the same file I grabbed all the above information from)

Graphics Card Model: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 TI (my other PC that I also tried rendering on has a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Super)

Graphics Card Driver Version: 30.0.15.1259

Status of GPU acceleration of video processing: This was ON for most of my troubleshooting, but I also tried rendering it once with it OFF and it was slower.

Status of Enable Hardware Decoding for supported formats:

Project Properties:

Render Settings: This is what came up as default with this particular option. I also set the video rendering quality to "Best" in the Project tab. During troubleshooting, I did go in and adjust the bitrates to see if that would help with the render speed. Along with the default settings shown here, I also tried 28 max/20 avg, 20 max/14 avg, and 14 max/10 avg. The rendering speed did not change.

More information about your PC:

  • CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600, in both PC's
  • RAM: 32GB on both PC's. Main PC (most rendering attempts) - Corsair Vengeance DDR4 32GB. Other PC: ADATA RGB D60G 32GB 3600

Comments

daniel-t wrote on 5/13/2022, 2:21 AM

Don’t have an answer for you, but am I seeing under 16gb free space on the working drive? Also, I note that your source footage is 60.00fps and your project/render is 59.94. Try rendering at 60.00.

Last changed by daniel-t on 5/13/2022, 2:23 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Intel i9-12900K, 32gb 5200mhz DDR5, Asus ROG Z690 Hero
2tb Samsung 980 Pro (m.2 gen 4), 2 x 4tb WD SN700 (m.2 gen 3, RAID 0)
AMD 6700 XT, 3 x NEC 24" LCD
Vegas 19 & Windows 11 Pro

Vegas user since v4.0b!

kaylaalg wrote on 5/13/2022, 2:30 AM

Don’t have an answer for you, but am I seeing under 16gb free space on the working drive? Also, I note that your source footage is 60.00fps and your project/render is 59.94. Try rendering at 60.00.

Thank you for the suggestions! I changed the working drive to my other drive (D Drive) that has a lot more space on it (500 GB). I also adjusted the 59.94 to 60.00. Unfortunately, I am still experiencing no change in speed. Average speed is showing 2.5 FPS right now.

todd-b wrote on 5/13/2022, 4:03 AM

Is this the format of your video, small facecam watching game?

If so, do you add feathering to your facecam mask? It tanks the playback speed, and render speed halved, It still renders at 30fps though

Playback with feathering 20fps, feathering disabled 60fps. That's just Vegas, but you mention transcoding of your source file is extremely slow too, no editing or fx. I did not find that to be true so must be more to your problem

 

Former user wrote on 5/13/2022, 6:35 AM

@kaylaalg Hi, this post had a video clip similar 3840 x 1080, basically you have to cut your video into two 1920 x 1080 (16:9) halves (no other cuts or edits), render each one out as 1920 x 1080, then reimport those two 16:9 halves as you would normally,

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/rendering-freezing-at-frame-before-crossfades--134997/#ca843169

The way your doing it, doubling up that clip, selecting half in each track & trying to edit it you're messing with Vegas's head, if you cut it in half as i suggest above, you'll have two regular sized 16:9 events on two tracks & should be able edit without problems,

todd-b wrote on 5/13/2022, 6:42 AM

@Former user Do you experience the same slow down? With 2 tracks 1 being face cam(no mask feather), 1 being game, I get 60fps render speed. So they may have something they can fix, unless you can see a problem with their hardware, such as their GPU, Was their any consensus as to what caused the slow down in the other thread?

Former user wrote on 5/13/2022, 6:47 AM

@todd-b I don't use this face cam stuff, in the other thread he also had green screen going on the half with him in, I think even if this OP isn't using green screen it's good practice to render out the two halves into separate 16:9 clips rather than trying to double the same wide event,

Former user wrote on 5/13/2022, 6:49 AM

@todd-b @kaylaalg If someone provides a clip i'll have a go, but my pc is no comparison to others, @todd-b I don't remember what pc you have as it's not in your signature?

todd-b wrote on 5/13/2022, 7:00 AM

@Former user They have provided a link https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AJC7Kyj6LXJ8DaY&cid=37508FED449253D7&id=37508FED449253D7%2170738&parId=37508FED449253D7%2165135&o=OneUp

Look at their original message if that link doesn't work. They want efficiency , 1 track duplicated, 1 game, 1 face cam the way I did. If I don't use feathering for the facecam this is a reasonable approach, feathering doubles render time. This still doesn't account for how slow their render is

Former user wrote on 5/13/2022, 7:16 AM

@todd-b Thanks, still waking up, missed that bold blue writing in the OP 🥱😂

Former user wrote on 5/13/2022, 7:44 AM

@daniel-t Hi, I've used Pan/Crop to select each half, then Track Motion to position the OP in the corner, nothing else added, this is how it looks at the mo, got to do some work now but i'll have a play with this later,

I'll have a go using Mask later, with & without feathering, 👍

project 1920x1080 60fps - playback 60fps no prob

render Magix AVC 1920x1080 60fps. I just changed one of the defaults to 60f

 

Yelandkeil wrote on 5/13/2022, 8:03 AM

Source file OK

Project OK

RenderTemplate OK

That GTX 1050ti bad

PC konfig problemaitc

PS: The other GTX is also bad, I mistook it for RTX2060 super.

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 5/13/2022, 8:17 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus Bios2803: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB4sys + 2TB4data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319雇佣兵-RX6900XT + AdrenalinEdition 22.5.1 (WHQL) 
DPort: 2xSamsung-LU28R55 10bit4k60Hz 300cd/m²HDR10 
ALC1200+AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1 Analog: ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic 

ALC1200-TOSLINK: LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar 
USB Input: IK Multimedia iRigKeys MIDI24 
USB Device: Ultron CardReader/Writer 

Windowspro 10.0.19044.2075  
DirectX 12_2 Ultimate, Direct3D11Package installed 
OpenGL 4.6.14800 Compatibility Profile Context Version 22.5.1 30.0.15021.11005

Vegaspro20 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgpro14.0.0.65 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack1662 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

Musicvid wrote on 5/13/2022, 8:20 AM

Try disabling so4 and see how it goes.

Also, Gaussian Blur is a resource hog.

Former user wrote on 5/13/2022, 8:25 AM

@todd-b Haven't gone to work yet, 😂

Slightly different approach,

Mask to select the OP,

Then pan/crop to position

Playback at 60fps no prob,

render same as before

---------------------

A slight feather on the mask around the OP increased GPU usage & render time by about 1/3

Former user wrote on 5/13/2022, 11:45 AM

@todd-b @kaylaalg

OK i rendered the two halves out separately as 1920x1080s

each took about 16mins to render

I then put those on the timeline, selected one half with Pan/Crop & positioned with track motion, render 9.05, quicker but time added rendering out the two separate clips,

I then added a mask with a feather to select the OP

& positioned using Pan/Crop

Render took 23mins, bit faster than the 40min using the orig duplicate tracks with a feather, but again time has to be added for the rendering of the two into two separate 1920x1080 clips,

I decided to mess this up a bit with some cuts & crossfades,

I took the two 1920x1080 rendered clips, selected with a feathered mask & positioned the OP with Pan/Crop chopped them up & added random crossfades, Made a project 10mins long, render took 9.57mins

I went back to the duplicated orig tracks, selected & positioned using Pan/Crop & a feathered mask, messed them up a bit with cuts & crossfades,

orig rendering looked interesting v high GPU, min CPU usage,

But rendering slowed to a crawl, 1hr estimated,

Final render 1hr .03 secs maxing out my GPU most of the way until the end after the crossfades

So i stand by my orig comment, spend the time to create 2 separate 16:9 clips,

 

 

 

kaylaalg wrote on 5/13/2022, 1:53 PM

Hi everyone, thank you for all of the comments and suggestions. And thank you to the folks who used my sample file in their own Vegas Pro software and tested out some things.

I'll clarify what my edits are in case that helps. I do reaction & watch-along content for YouTube and Patreon. This file in particular is a Patreon video that is edited in watch-along format. For copyright reasons, I obviously cannot show the media that I'm watching or have the audio playing, which is the purpose of the blur over the file (and the audio is completely removed). The blur allows my viewers to reasonably tell where I am at any given point in case they have to pause things on their end, then they can easily sync back up with me. I have a timer up as well, but I've had feedback that having the media up as well with the blur over top is still a big help for them. I used to not have the media at all and folks found it difficult to tell where I was. Here's a screenshot of how that looks.

@Musicvid I removed gaussian blur from my edit and disabled so4 like you suggested and doing this was SUCH a huge help. My render speed increased to 60fps and it looks like the render would take between 60-90 minutes to complete, which is what I expect based on my PC specs, and what I've experienced with Filmora. So now my question is: is there a different type of blur that I can use that isn't a resource hog? I noticed that Vegas Pro has a few different blurs, but I just defaulted to gaussian blur. I use blurs in Filmora without issue, so I'm really surprised that ONE effect would be the cause of a render slowing down so much.

@Former user I appreciate you testing this out for me. I used to do separate 1920x1080 files when I first started this until some friends told me about the recording in 3840x1080 trick and just cropping it in editing. Filmora handles this beautifully and it makes things much easier for me. To have to go back to that, or rather take an extra rendering step, is not ideal and something I don't want to do. Thankfully, it appears the blur effect was the main culprit as rendering without that (but still having the two 3840x1080 files) brought the time down to a reasonable time for me.

@Yelandkeil I do not have the ability to upgrade my GPU's right now, but good to know that I have "bad" GPU's. Your feedback has been a huge help.

todd-b wrote on 5/13/2022, 3:18 PM

This problem is because Gaussian blur uses the GPU, which is a good thing, but not if you have a weak GPU. Try some other blurs or other methods to obscure

Former user wrote on 5/13/2022, 3:34 PM

@kaylaalg just for the sake of mentioning it -

I tried it in MEP, as above just the two orig 3840x1080 clips duplicated, section on one to select the OP. section on the other track to select the video,

Vegas render in pics above 27 mins, MEP - export 12mins,

I chopped up those 2 orig 3840x1080 clips & added random crossfades to make a 10min project

exported in 6.5mins

There's no feathering in MEP around the section that selects the OP, so i rendered the Vegas 10min version again with transitions but with no feather around the mask,

Rendered in 58mins, so not much faster than the one earlier with the feathered mask that rendered in 1hr.03secs

This was with no feathering on the mask

 

todd-b wrote on 5/13/2022, 3:43 PM

@Former user People sure get their money's worth with you when they provide some media for others to simulate a project. It's a good approach and removes the guess work

Yelandkeil wrote on 5/13/2022, 3:53 PM

PnP+LinearBlur

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 5/13/2022, 4:01 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus Bios2803: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB4sys + 2TB4data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319雇佣兵-RX6900XT + AdrenalinEdition 22.5.1 (WHQL) 
DPort: 2xSamsung-LU28R55 10bit4k60Hz 300cd/m²HDR10 
ALC1200+AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1 Analog: ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic 

ALC1200-TOSLINK: LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar 
USB Input: IK Multimedia iRigKeys MIDI24 
USB Device: Ultron CardReader/Writer 

Windowspro 10.0.19044.2075  
DirectX 12_2 Ultimate, Direct3D11Package installed 
OpenGL 4.6.14800 Compatibility Profile Context Version 22.5.1 30.0.15021.11005

Vegaspro20 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgpro14.0.0.65 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack1662 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

kaylaalg wrote on 5/13/2022, 3:54 PM

This problem is because Gaussian blur uses the GPU, which is a good thing, but not if you have a weak GPU. Try some other blurs or other methods to obscure

I'll try out the other blurs and see how the speed goes. I appreciate the reply!

@Former user I've never used MEP before, but I may give it a try after seeing this. Thanks again for the work you've put in to help me out and show me some different options. I echo what @todd-b said in the comment above.

kaylaalg wrote on 5/13/2022, 3:56 PM

@Yelandkeil Thank you! Going to try Linear Blur.

Former user wrote on 5/13/2022, 4:12 PM

@Former user People sure get their money's worth with you when they provide some media for others to simulate a project. It's a good approach and removes the guess work


@todd-b 😂👍 I'm lucky enough to have a pc that can render in a shorter time than others, i remember in the past waiting 10+mins just to render out a 1min test sample, hit render & it looks like nothing is happening & so those test never get done,

The one that surprised me was the 10min clip, with the feather on the mask 1hr, without the feather 55mins, i thought it was going to be quicker without 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I'm procrastinating, i've 100 clips to edit for my own vids but just can't get my arse in gear to do it 🕺😂

@kaylaalg MEP layout interface works in a similar way to Vegas but is a much more basic program, really basic controls & basic built in fxs but it has amazing render speed, 3x that of Vegas & preview playback res is good,

I read your earlier comment after posting my comment above, so i exported that 10min clip of your orig file, added a blur to the video, MEP exported it in 19mins, Vegas without a blur took 55mins so i'm not even going to try that one, you know what the result of that would be 😂

 

kaylaalg wrote on 5/13/2022, 4:21 PM

@Former user Oh gosh, yep I do know. 😂 Also, I was not using feathering on my files, at least I don't think I was? I'm not sure how I would check that.

I am really intrigued by MEP because learning how to edit in Vegas Pro, I honestly really enjoyed the controls, the layout, etc. It's this darn rendering time that is a turn-off for me. I'm currently exporting this full edit now in Filmora so that I can get it out for my patrons, and in 14 mins it was already at 37% (video length is 1h 13m). This is with full blurs, cuts, transitions, etc. It's something that I just don't want to go backwards on. Just want a better program to use where rendering is either faster or the same amount of time as what I'm used to. 😅

Thanks again!

 

xcxz-a wrote on 5/13/2022, 4:22 PM

@kaylaalg @Former user Basically Vegas is good at heavy video editing and production, working with various OFX and scripts/extensions. Vegas is not good at rendering, so if your workflow is more focused on rendering and previewing, you should switch to another software like Resolve early. Resolve is more good at all aspects.