Video QUALITY problems, need advices!

Odykin wrote on 3/11/2019, 12:25 PM

Hello people!

I'm in need of help here, with my video quality. I would like to know with what kind of rendering settings would I get the best QUALITY results? What settings should I be taking? I've gone through lots and lots of tutorial videos with no luck in finding quality that would satisfy me. I've made test videos and played with the settings quite a bit but never managed to find decent quality.

I'm recording gameplay with Nvidia shadowplay. I play the games on ultras with almost every graphical tweak enabled, except for motion blur, I've heard and come to find that motion blur is bad when rendering. The footage is CRYSTAL clear and smooth but when I edit it with Vegas Movie Studio Platinum, the footage becomes grainy. My goal is to upload these videos on Youtube (1080),which then messes up the quality even more. I don't care how long the rendering gets as long as I get good results. My last rendering took about 2hours for 18 minute long video and the quality was the worst I've seen. I used to have template saved that gave me "decent" quality but I lost that template and haven't been able to find it again.

  • Should I always start project by using project settings or the video's settings?
  • What is the best format to go with?
  • Which template to use? and how to customize it to give best results?

Give me something, give me anything; give me the most computer devouring settings that you can find that gives the best possible results on paper and I'll test them. 😂

Comments

j-v wrote on 3/11/2019, 12:46 PM
  • Should I always start project by using project settings or the video's settings?

What are those projectsettings and what are the settings of your sourcefiles and your intended export goal.

What is the best format to go with?

If your exportgoal is Youtube look for the settings in the YT needed specs you have to use for your goal to show there.

Which template to use? and how to customize it to give best results?

That also depends on your exportgoal and -settings, look above.

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version1803 build 17134.407, CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 419.35
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

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Odykin wrote on 3/11/2019, 3:15 PM

Hmm..Okay so;

  • My project settings are nonexistent as I'm looking for project settings that could give me results. Files I record with Nvidia are (.mp4) and I don't care what format it'll be once I'm done rendering. I want quality and so far rendering has been the opposite.
  • YT recommendations are bad quality wise, they're not too willing on sharing how everything works on the site so their recommendations are just plain and simple.
  • All I want is some template recommendations, give me settings/templates/preferences. Anything that makes video look great on youtube's 1080p60

I repeat; my files are: MP4(1920x1080),Size 3.36 GB, Encoded by GeForce SHARE. Quality is PERFECTION

My goal is to find render settings that don't damage my quality and then get these videos into Youtube 1080p60 with the best possible PERFECT quality.

j-v wrote on 3/11/2019, 3:28 PM

Therefore we don't have to know the extension of your file because it does not say anything about quality, used codec and so on.
So read first this what we need to give some ( beginning) of help for you.
It is not only for Vegas Pro but also for VMS

Last changed by j-v on 3/11/2019, 3:30 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version1803 build 17134.407, CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 419.35
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

Eagle Six wrote on 3/11/2019, 4:33 PM

@Odykin can you download the free app Mediainfo, then select the 'View' tab and select 'Text' mode. Then select the 'File' tab, navigate to your source media file. Mediainfo will provide a screen full of specs. Post a screenshot of that report. It will tell us what quality your source is, then members can recommend project settings and a render format template/setting.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve 15.3 Studio
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

Odykin wrote on 3/11/2019, 5:39 PM

Thanks. While I understand that some template forms don't work well with all files, due to how some codecs are built to work with different file types etc etc. There usually is one option that is just way stronger than others and guaranteed to give good results with the cost of long rendering times and power consumption. Like in HitFilm you either fiddle with the settings and find the correct setting for you or you just overkill it with the absolute god like template that eats your system's powers dry. That's what I was looking for, though if this helps to find settings that sits well with my files and gives me good results with less rendering time then even better!

Here's the file info:

Eagle Six wrote on 3/11/2019, 7:04 PM

@Odykin Thank You for the information, another item we need to know is what version of Movie Studio are you using? This would determine what render formats you have available.

Last changed by Eagle Six on 3/11/2019, 7:04 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve 15.3 Studio
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

Eagle Six wrote on 3/11/2019, 7:08 PM

While you are getting that information, this source media has variable frame rate. You will have a much better post production experience if your source is constant frame rate. Are you doing screen captures or is this source from a smart phone perhaps? And is there an option to record in constant frame rate.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve 15.3 Studio
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

Odykin wrote on 3/12/2019, 2:58 AM

I'm using Movie Studio Platinum 14.0 (build 148).

And yes I'm doing screen captures, I use Nvidia shadowplay to capture footage from games and such. I have actually locked the recording to 60 fps, but the things I record usually run around 140-240fps so I guess the frame rate varies because of that.I wouldn't go as far as downgrading my stuff to 60 fps, but I'm gonna have to look into this and see if I can lock my recording to higher frame rates somehow.

j-v wrote on 3/12/2019, 6:16 AM

Vegas and other NLE software don't like those kind of files.
For good handling in your Movie Studio you have to convert that file with variable framerates ( and with such big diferences especially) with a converter like f.i. Handbrake to get steady 59,940 framerate if you live in a country where NTSC is common.
Better is to use for making your screenplays the free program OBS as said here.

For now your best change to get good results is to use Make Movie/ Save it to my harddrive as mp4 and go.
If your projectsettings are right and have the same settings for framerate and dimensions as your sourcefiles, you will get automatic the best output for sharing on the internet.

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version1803 build 17134.407, CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 419.35
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

Odykin wrote on 3/12/2019, 12:02 PM

Thanks for the tips and advices.

I started off with my first videos like that, I saved them on my hdd and then uploaded them on youtube. Quality in this case was bad. I'm gonna have to check settings and try that again, also I will try converting with my hopes high that this helps. If these tricks doesn't work then I'm guessing vegas can't offer me good quality in my case(?)

I know it's possible because there are people with crystal clear gaming videos on youtube but I'm pretty sure most of these people used HitFilm to render their videos together, and I know for a fact that these people didn't limit their fps in any way. Youtube autom. drops uploaded files fps down to 60, which has an impact on the quality but it's so small that most people don't limit their content's fps themselves from what I've heard. I seriously wouldn't want to jump to HitFilm as I don't like the layouts and how things work there, been using vegas products since 2008.

Eagle Six wrote on 3/12/2019, 12:11 PM

@Odykin if you don't want to use OBS to get constant frame rate, why not use Handbrake or Avidemux to convert your Shadowplay source and then see what you can do in MS14? You might also consider a short render to compare quality using the trial version of MMSP16. I'm not familiar with 14, but there may be better render formats available in 16 than 14.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve 15.3 Studio
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

j-v wrote on 3/12/2019, 12:33 PM

I'm not familiar with 14, but there may be better render formats available in 16 than 14.

Not better, but some are much faster with the same quality.

 

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version1803 build 17134.407, CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 419.35
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

Eagle Six wrote on 3/12/2019, 1:16 PM

@j-v Thank You for that information. The reason I questioned it is because I have VP14 and it does not have Magix AVC. If I assumed MS14 also did not have Magix AVC (and if that assumption was correct), from my testing, Magix AVC (defaults) provides better quality than legacy MainConcept AVC and better quality Sony AVC. I have not tested Intel HEVC, but I do notice that in VP14 the HEVC is wrapped in mov and the MS16 HEVC is wrapped in mp4. That may or may not imply a difference in the enclosed quality.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve 15.3 Studio
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

j-v wrote on 3/12/2019, 2:11 PM

@Eagle Six I never could see those differences other than more default export options, but they were also possible by customized MC or Sony AVC's . That we in the meantime can use other formats and other dimensions on our sourcefiles for editing in the new versions has nothing to do with this quality (I think).

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version1803 build 17134.407, CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 419.35
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

Eagle Six wrote on 3/12/2019, 6:28 PM

For those who may be interested, using the RQM (Render Quality Matrics) tool that Wayne Waag published, I ran these test, attempting to match the quality settings as best as reasonable.

Magix AVC AMD VCE set at 50/50 Mb/s, the MSE=2.050 and the PSNR=45.281

Legacy MainConcept AVC set at CBR 50 Mb/s, the MSE=2.0539 and the PSNR=44.260

Sony AVC set at max Mb/s which was 26 Mb/s, the MSE=6.560 and the PSNR=40.003

The lower the MSE value and the higher the PSNR value the better quality compared to the original.

Of course there is always a trade off for file size, speed to render and quality retained, but sometimes an older format like the Sony AVC does not compete depending on the resolution and (most important) frame rate.

It is clear that, apples-for-apples, the Magix AVC AMD VCE (which is available in v16) provides better quality than any option available in v14 and renders on my PC about 3 times faster.

NOTE: I did not test HEVC encoders in this comparison.

EDIT: I mistakenly reference above to v15, when I meant to say v14, I have corrected it.

Last changed by Eagle Six on 3/13/2019, 11:19 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve 15.3 Studio
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

j-v wrote on 3/12/2019, 7:07 PM

If your statement is true than also there will be different quality between the Magix AVC renderoption here, which is the same one in VMS 14, but has to be customized there
, and the same with the AMC VCE option I cannot show because I have not that option. When I compare the Nvenc with much faster rendering and the Mainconcept option the quality is the same.

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version1803 build 17134.407, CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 419.35
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

Eagle Six wrote on 3/13/2019, 11:38 AM

If your statement is true than also there will be different quality between the Magix AVC renderoption here, which is the same one in VMS 14, but has to be customized there
, and the same with the AMC VCE option I cannot show because I have not that option. When I compare the Nvenc with much faster rendering and the Mainconcept option the quality is the same.


@j-v , I mistakenly referenced comparison between v16 and v15, when I meant to compare v16 against v14, and of course v15 would include the same render formats as v16. Again, I do not have Movie Studio 14, only Vegas Pro 14, which does not include Magix AVC. If Movie Studio 14 also does not include Magix AVC, my point to achieve the highest quality render, by comparison, was that there may be an advantage using the Magix AVC format and template to use AMD VCE, which the comparison test above shows.

As to comparing the Magix MainConcept AVC against the legacy MainConcept AVC, there is also a small advantage going to Magix with a MSE=2.505 and the legacy MSE=2.539. I'm sure this difference by many would be considered splitting hairs, and I may also agree, but if the question is which is the best, Magix is the winner.

If the question is for the better quality render difference, is it worth it to upgrade, then that is a different question. For me the difference between Magix MainConcept and leagacy MainConcept would not be of value, but the difference between Magix AVC AMD VCE and legacy MainConcept is substantial when also considering the file size is a bit smaller and the render time is about 3x faster.

I have not tested HEVC and do not have a Nvidia card so cannot make those comparisons. I will accept your statement that they are the same. Although if you are using your eyes for that comparison, I would not trust my old eyes.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve 15.3 Studio
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16