Typical intermediate codecs are Cineform or Canopus HQ(X). Cineform will work very well in Vegas, also with 10bit.
That should not be mixed up with progressive versus interlaced, what is a complete different story. There are 23,976p, 24,000p, 25p, 30p, 50p, 60p or even 120p or higher. To use intermediate codecs to avoid losses - without other information I would stay in the format of the original footage. If one deinterlaces may depend more on how the footage will be used.
Agree - but also a format that will smart-render can be used. There has been some discussion if smart-rendering works - or not - but check the manual for the conditions - and then try it out with your normally used delivery formats - just to be sure.
I have successfully smart-rendered recently...
... and then we have the lossless Lagarith too. But it takes up very much space, of course.
Finally, if you decide for, say a mp4 format - you can mostly raise the Mbps significently before rendering.
Yes, you will want a mathematically lossless RGB encoder,, not YUV.
My previous tests on the warhorse encoders are here, but not Sony or Magic YUV, because they will start to show wear around 6-10 generations. Be aware that some of the following will also encode yuv, but that is not what you want.
Just download and install the free GoPro Studio. The Cineform codecs will be installed when you do this. You need not use Studio for anything, but you have to install it to get Cineform. It is a lossy codec, as noted above, but it is visually lossless for several generations. It's a superb intermediate codec, plays well with Vegas, and is relatively compact.
GoPro Studio is awesome for some tasks, including unpacking ProTune
wrote on 9/15/2016, 10:11 PM
I still don't get why people avoid uncompressed for their intermediates. If you are working in video, you know you need a lot of storage so that shouldn't be an issue. You can always delete the intermediate when you are finished. It renders several times faster than a compressed format.(which is an advantage if you need to recreate the intermediate). And is lossless.
Data rate probably. 8-bit 1080p30 video has a data rate of 186MB per second. Well beyond HD bandwidth for a single media file. SSD and/or RAID territory. "Sony YUV" would save some data rate and is uncompressed but not lossless as it is 422 chroma subsample.
...but not... ...Magic YUV, because they will start to show wear around 6-10 generations.
It shouldn't do if the default "Compress as is (no conversion)" is set, should it? When I render to MagicYUV and bring it back to the timeline to compare with the original, not a single pixel moves on any of the scopes, which says to me it's 100% lossless.
It's just the chroma subsampling that makes the big initial hit, then whatever compression losses in subsequent generations. If one is running Magic in 4:4:4 or direct copy, I doubt one would detect a difference after any reasonable number of generations.
All yuv-only encoders were ruled out of that initial (only?) round of tests, and comparing the belle-nuit chart with 4:4:4 rgb will instantly show the differences. Generational losses I wouldn't expect to be much different than Huffy, which showed up after the fifth generation in one guy's tests.
What would be interesting would be to see tests comparing Sony YUV and Magic in 8 and 10 bit modes using the scopes and charts, Sony being the gold standard in every test I ran. Still, a yuv intermediate would be my second choice if I knew I would be rendering more than a few consecutive generations.
wrote on 9/16/2016, 9:04 AM
Data rate is an issue only if you are trying to play it real time. If you are making an intermediate, to me that means you are moving between programs such as Vegas to Resolve, etc. I find uncompressed much faster to render and move around between programs and don't have to be concerned with any loss.
@chas-chas You'll find it here... Choose Render As > Video for Windows > Choose a template > Choose MagicYUV from the Video format dropdown menu > Configure... I use defaults for everything in there (I think).
@Musicvid As I understand it, MagicYUV does a direct RGB encode, not YUV, if it's set like in these screenshots. The "TIP" at the bottom of the tooltip implies (to me) that direct RGB will be used if you don't select a YUV variant. Unfortunately MediaInfo doesn't reveal whether the rendered file is RGB or YUV. I guess I could do some multi-generational tests to confirm it.
I did some tests on lossless and near-lossless codecs here: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/magicyuv-codec-coming-on-strong-for-4k--98668/#ca606764 Unfortunately didn't include Lagarith or Cineform but you should get a significant saving in file size with any of the near-lossless codecs (Cineform etc.) compared to the lossless codecs (MagicYUV, UT Video Codec, Lagarith). The thing I really like about MagicYUV compared to the other lossless codecs is the decode speed, which makes for smooth playback. If you're pushed for power and space then don't discount Sony XAVC Intra. It may be lossless enough for you and it's small and plays smoothly and of course natively supported in Vegas. I would test that against Cineform if I were you.