White Balance VP17

AlesCZ wrote on 10/21/2019, 4:39 PM

Hello,

white balance in Vegas Pro 17. Compare several ways. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but the white balance in Vegas 17 (native) is completely out.

Original:



Vegas White Balance:

AAV Colorlab WB (free plugin):

NewBlue Color Fixer (plugin):

Vegas Auto Adjust:

Quick manual WB (Color Corrector wheels):

The old Vegas WB would be as unusable as this "new WB". It does not respect color shades at all. Auto Adjust no comment...

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 10/21/2019, 8:29 PM

“Free” AAV Colorlab and I’m done.

Sylk wrote on 10/21/2019, 9:54 PM

Plugins to do basic stuff with decent results isn't a solution. Otherwise it's not a software but a hub...

Software:
[OS]  : Windows 10 Ent. x64 v1903 (18362.535)
[NLE] : Vegas Pro 17.0 (Build 321) // (Build 284 if posted before 9/24/19)
[DRV] : Studio 536.23 (Display, PhysX, HD Audio) // (Game Ready 436.15 if posted before 9/24/19)
Hardware:
[GPU] : Gainward RTX 4090 Phantom / GTX 1080 Phoenix GLH
[CPU] : Intel Core i7-2600K @3.4GHz OC@4.5GHz (HyperThreaded) | AirCooling: Noctua NH-D14
[RAM] : 16GB (4x 4GB GSkill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24) @1333MHz
[SSD] : Samsung 860 Pro 1TB
[MOB] : Asus P8P67 Deluxe (Rev.1), No iGPU support
[SND] : Asus Xonar Essence STX
[PSU] : Corsair HX750
Devices:
[DSP1]: 30" DELL UltraSharp U3011 @2560x1600
[DSP2]: 28" Samsung U28D590 @3840x2160

[UPS] : Eaton 5PX 2200i RT

[CAM] : GoPro Hero8/4/3 Black. Apple iPhone 11Pro/6S.
[REC] : Zoom Handy Recorder H4.
Grazie wrote on 10/21/2019, 10:11 PM

I’d like to see a ScreenGrab of your Scopes on that original sample and what source you’d used as lighting? Interesting outcomes, but I feel this is only part of the story there maybe actual “holes” in the wavelengths, and what maybe be being corrected is also a misnomer. I’ve done it myself too 😉. LED and Streetlights and mixes of both. It’s a mess!
 

malowz wrote on 10/22/2019, 12:19 AM

what i got with Curves and CC secondary to fix highlights:

with difficult to fix scenes, high ISO with blow out areas, i recommend using curves.

in this scene you wont have perfect colors, just "better" ones.

 

AlesCZ wrote on 10/22/2019, 12:28 AM

@john_dennis: ColorLab is a very old plugin. It has no GPU support.
@Grazie: It does not matter. White is always white and black is black. It's simple. Vegas WB only hard layered the image with a color filter. That's ridiculous.


Not to mention that the new Vegas WB is not properly set to neutral gray.

@malowz: Yes, sometimes I also use curves for WB. Thanks!

Robert Johnston wrote on 10/22/2019, 4:13 AM

@AlesCZ

Do you make sure that the "amount of correction" and "tint" are set to zero before you sample with the eyedropper? The way it is on my computer, the default settings for White Balance cause a green colorcast because the amount of correction is set at something like 0.136 by default.

Intel Core i7 10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz (to 4.65GHz), NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8GBytes. Memory 32 GBytes DDR4. Also Intel UHD Graphics 630. Mainboard: Dell Inc. PCI-Express 3.0 (8.0 GT/s) Comet Lake. Bench CPU Multi Thread: 5500.5 per CPU-Z.

Vegas Pro 21.0 (Build 108) with Mocha Vegas

Windows 11 not pro

AlesCZ wrote on 10/22/2019, 6:34 AM

@Former user Thanks. I have purchased this plugin for some time, but I don't have it installed. I thought the NEW Vegas WB was working. Well, it doesn't work.

wwjd wrote on 10/22/2019, 6:38 AM

@AlesCZ

Vegas White Balance has always been terrible. That is simply the hard truth. There is no point in trying to justify, as there is no justification. All other software has a decent White Balance except Vegas.

Yup, that. I stopped using VEGAS WB as soon as I found AAV COLORLAB WB. I also have the IGNITE one. Now, Vegas WB is used as an "effect" :D

AlesCZ wrote on 10/22/2019, 9:42 AM

@wwjd: Um, that's funny :)

 

But to be fair. I've done some tests and it works pretty well in some situations. It also depends on the camera profile settings. Vegas WB does not work very well when set to YI Colors (the default YI camera setting), but Vegas WB is quite usable when setting Flat Profile. It's strange, but it is.
Basically, the main drawback is the coloring of shadows in some situations.

wwaag wrote on 10/22/2019, 11:22 AM

"Try this plugin (no free). This is the best I know and has support for GPU acceleration."

http://www.fbmn-software.com/en/white-balance.html

+1. Even better now since the price has fallen from $70 US when I purchased it some years ago to $40 US. I believe there is a 14 day trial.

While it's probably "the best available", I still prefer use of AAVColorLab since it does so many more things, especially the 6 vector color correction. It may be "old and slow", but it still works pretty well (like some of us - LOL).

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Musicvid wrote on 10/22/2019, 1:55 PM

1. Vegas' white balance has always been that way. AAVColorLab has a reputation for being reliable, if a tiny bit warm in fleshtones.

2. Correcting white balance in post is not white balance; it is a contrivance that destroys data, not restores it, and it is a little like trying to unbake a cake. White correction in post, even with the best tools, is not a cure for run-n-gun shooting errors or just lazy technique.

3. One must take care "what" one is calling "white" in post, as in shooting. One must take into account base reflectance, lighting, spurious bandwidth reflections, UV, and a whole host of very subjective factors. Ask about that from anyone who shoots weddings.

4. When you get off-color footage, be conservative. Go half way and be done with it. Getting rid of "all" the color cast is self-defeating. And whatever you do, don't stare at it! Glance at the image, apply a small correction, and look at it again tomorrow. Really.

 

 

Grazie wrote on 10/23/2019, 1:54 AM
3. One must take care "what" one is calling "white" in post, as in shooting. One must take into account base reflectance, lighting, spurious bandwidth reflections, UV, and a whole host of very subjective factors. Ask about that from anyone who shoots weddings.

@Musicvid - That's a great reply. Sometimes some of the wavelengths are actually missing, and can not be WB-ed.

 

 

alifftudm95 wrote on 10/23/2019, 10:19 AM

I thought I'm the only one who think VEGAS wb is inaccurate. We have to spend more for Plugins that can perform better then default OFX.

Magix really, really need to take a serious consideration in making sure VEGAS Pro OFX is functioning well as what being expected by Professionals. More and more user in switching to Davinci Resolves. VEGAS still remain unpopular due to this simple error.

The Vector scopes in VEGAS Pro doesn't even have the option to display "Skin Tones" guide line as references, like in Premiere.

Last changed by alifftudm95 on 10/23/2019, 10:20 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Musicvid wrote on 10/23/2019, 10:55 AM
 

@Musicvid - That's a great reply. Sometimes some of the wavelengths are actually missing, and can not be WB-ed.

Missing, yes, as in street lights and fluourescent tubes.

Also, sensors react to "excitable" clothing and dyes in ways the eyes can't see, especially with fluourescent, LED, UV (cotton "glow"), and even a few IR-excitable fabric dyes that register deep red instead of black as the eyes see.

 

Terry45 wrote on 11/8/2019, 7:00 PM

I thought I was going crazy with white balance until I saw all of your comments, so thanks. I just upgraded to Vegas 17 and was using the white balance. When I would select the white point, the correction was always too much. So I would drag the slider down and got a decent value. But every time I did something else in the project, it kept resetting to the original correction value. It was OK when it worked, but the resetting was a major pain.

john-brown wrote on 11/8/2019, 10:20 PM

I did a great job of balancing the white in a video recently - got rid of a yellowish cast on everything, white was white. When I got to the end, I removed the white balance. Why? The yellowish cast was from the sun rising (early morning). Getting rid of the yellow ruined the moment.

Vegas Pro 18 Edit, Vegas Movie Studio 16 Platinum, Magix Video Pro X15 Magix Movie Studio Platinum 2023, Xara Designer Pro X19, Samplitude Pro X3 Suite, Music Maker 2024 with Premium 2023, SF Audio Cleaning Lab 4, Sound Forge Pro 11 and more.

Grazie wrote on 11/8/2019, 10:32 PM

LI did a great job of balancing the white .....When I got to the end, I removed the white balance. .......Getting rid of the yellow ruined the moment.

@john-brown - Love it! Perfect Post. This should give us all pause.....

Musicvid wrote on 11/8/2019, 11:57 PM

LI did a great job of balancing the white .....When I got to the end, I removed the white balance. .......Getting rid of the yellow ruined the moment.

@john-brown - Love it! Perfect Post. This should give us all pause.....

Oh yeah, someone got it besides us boomers.

fifonik wrote on 11/9/2019, 7:06 PM
Try this plugin (no free). This is the best I know and has support for GPU acceleration.

http://www.fbmn-software.com/en/white-balance.html

Agree, the plugin gives good results.

However, it uses the most complicated and conta-intuitive activation procedure I've ever seen in my life. I was not able to activate it without contacting developer for the first time. Be ready to repeat the procedure if/when you upgrade/replace your PC.

Also, it is quite slow and GPU version only supports NVIDIA GPUs.

Another "issue" -- it only allows you to select point, not region as Vegas White Balance plugin. So sometimes you will try choose "white" point many times before you can get good results, especially if your video is noisy.

As a result, I'm using it very rarely.

Last changed by fifonik on 11/9/2019, 7:16 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19

eikira wrote on 11/9/2019, 7:59 PM

@AlesCZ

Vegas White Balance has always been terrible. This is the pure and simple truth. There is no point in trying to justify, as there is no justification. All other software has a decent White Balance except Vegas.

Try this plugin (no free). This is the best I know and has support for GPU acceleration.

http://www.fbmn-software.com/en/white-balance.html

if you think about, its just silly that you need in a "professional" video editing software a third party plugin an additional 70 USD for a working white balance, which is a most basic function in a video edit software...

its not like magix does not know about their non working little stuff, they just dont care about it. like i set up a ticket about 8 months ago, and they still dont care about the problems in their software and ignore reminder etc. they just dont give a f***.

Musicvid wrote on 11/9/2019, 8:15 PM

Preaching to the choir, maybe?

RogerS wrote on 11/9/2019, 10:32 PM

Yes, it's odd users rely on third party for decent curves and white balance. The color grading window could work so much better than it does.

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VEGAS Pro 21.208

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