Broadcast Delivery with VEGAS Pro

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 5:48 AM

I'm editing for my local TV Station, and I was provided with this Spec Sheet for the station.

I'm clueless about the track assignment.

Media Info:

Footage from Sony A7Siii SLOG3:

General
Complete name                            : D:\Video Project\JOB\20230221_TAKAFUL TAKBIR RAYA 2023\ARTWORK\TAKAFUL MALAYSIA\CLIP\A0010002.MP4
Format                                   : XAVC
Codec ID                                 : XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)
File size                                : 4.97 GiB
Duration                                 : 4 min 56 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 144 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-02-20 01:50:37
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-02-20 01:50:37

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High 4:2:2@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4 min 56 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 140 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.675
Stream size                              : 4.83 GiB (97%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-02-20 01:50:37
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-02-20 01:50:37
Color range                              : Full
Metas                                    : 3
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Big / Signed
Codec ID                                 : twos
Duration                                 : 4 min 56 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 54.2 MiB (1%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-02-20 01:50:37
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-02-20 01:50:37

 

Audio is 4 Channel


Complete name                            : D:\Video Project\JOB\20230221_TAKAFUL TAKBIR RAYA 2023\ARTWORK\AUDIO\TAKBIR-002.WAV
Format                                   : Wave
File size                                : 163 MiB
Duration                                 : 4 min 56 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 4 608 kb/s
Producer                                 : SoundDev: MixPre-10T QD051825001
Description                              : sSPEED=025.000-ND / sTAKE=002 / sUBITS=$00000000 / sSWVER=8.00.5136 / sSCENE=takbir / sFILENAME=TAKBIR-002.WAV / sTAPE=230220 / sCIRCLED=FALSE / sTRK3=mic 1 / sTRK4=mic2 / sTRK5=mic3 / sTRK7=boom / sNOTE=brainworkstudio
Encoded date                             : 2023-02-20 09:38:06
Encoding settings                        : A=PCM,F=48000,W=24,M=multi,R=48000,T=4 Ch;Ambisonics=off
Producer_Reference                       : USSDVQD05182500142302209c3000101

Audio
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed
Codec ID                                 : 1
Duration                                 : 4 min 56 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 4 608 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 4 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 163 MiB (100%)

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

Storage:

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Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

Comments

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/7/2023, 7:44 AM

Maybe you will find this helpful here:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/can-vegas-pro-output-mxf-op1a-mxf-opatom--128599/

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 8:05 AM

Maybe you will find this helpful here:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/can-vegas-pro-output-mxf-op1a-mxf-opatom--128599/

Yes, from my old forum post, was wondering bout the video render, now Im clueless for the audio track,

the end result I should get 4 channels from what I've been told. All of the seniors editor are coming from Dr, Pr or FCPX. I'm the only editor that use VEGAS Pro.

 

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

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Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 8:14 AM

The source audio im dealing is already 4channel.

So when I import to Resolve, it will create 4 audio track. Each track set to 1.0, which mean it is an Mono Track

upon rendering, simply tick render each channel per track and add 2 output stereo track.

 

In VEGAS, the closest thing is the channel setting via the render dialog box. Kinda clueless atm.

Last changed by alifftudm95 on 3/7/2023, 8:18 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

Storage:

C DRIVE NVME M.2 1TB SSD GEN 4

D DRIVE NVME M.2 2TB SSD GEN 4

E DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

F DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

G DRIVE HDD 1TB

Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/7/2023, 8:41 AM

And in addition, maybe you find that format with the Sony MXF and Sony MXF HDCOM SR encoders. Here you receive MXF files, with OP-1a. However, if you want the 10bit, the bitrate seems to become higher then in the specifications (the bitrate of 50 Mbps was maybe for 8bit).

Not sure how that can be solved, since I have not seen that you can adjust the bitrate in those encoders.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/7/2023, 9:01 AM

So either you choose following encoder settings

results to

what seems to be the desired format (but with 8bit only)

 

OR

but results to that with 10bits, but higher data rates

So audio is not the only issue!!

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 9:38 AM

So either you choose following encoder settings

results to

what seems to be the desired format (but with 8bit only)

 

OR

but results to that with 10bits, but higher data rates

So audio is not the only issue!!

how bout the audio? did u see the extra "channel" mapping in the render menu?

did the exported clip got 4 ch audio?

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

Storage:

C DRIVE NVME M.2 1TB SSD GEN 4

D DRIVE NVME M.2 2TB SSD GEN 4

E DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

F DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

G DRIVE HDD 1TB

Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

john_dennis wrote on 3/7/2023, 9:42 AM

@alifftudm95

You might find this tutorial enlightening.

Multichannel Render Template in Vegas Pro (johnrofrano.com)

This is what one of my local broadcast station delivers.

Not what they require as input.

My main system:
Motherboard: ASUS ProArt Z790-CREATOR WIFI
CPU: Intel Core i9-13900K - Core i9 13th Gen Raptor Lake 24-Core (8P+16E) P-core Base Frequency: 3.0 GHz E-core Base Frequency: 2.2 GHz LGA 1700 125W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071513900K
GPU: Currently intel on-die video adapter
RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance 64GB (2 x 32GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 5600 (PC5 44800) Desktop Memory Model CMK64GX5M2B5600C40
Disk O/S & Programs: WD Black SN850 NVMe SSD WDS100T1X0E - SSD - 1 TB - PCIe 4.0 x4 (NVMe)
Disk Active Projects: 1TB & 2TB WD BLACK SN750 NVMe Internal PCI Express 3.0 x4 Solid State Drives
Disk Other: WD Ultrastar/Hitachi Hard Drives: WDBBUR0080BNC-WRSN, HGST HUH728080ALE600, 724040ALE640, HDS3020BLA642
Case: LIAN LI PC-90 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Case
CPU cooling: CORSAIR - iCUE H115i RGB PRO XT 280mm Radiator CPU Liquid Cooling System
Power supply: SeaSonic SS-750KM3 750W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Drive Bay: Kingwin KF-256-BK 2.5" and 3.5" Trayless Hot Swap Rack with USB 3
Sound card: Realtek S1220A on motherboard. Recording done on another system.
Primary Monitor: ASUS ProArt 31.5" 1440p HDR10 Monitor PA328QV
O/S: Windows 10 Pro 10.0.19045 Build 19045
Camera: Sony RX10 Model IV

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedennischannel

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 10:42 AM

@alifftudm95

You might find this tutorial enlightening.

Multichannel Render Template in Vegas Pro (johnrofrano.com)

This is what one of my local broadcast station delivers.

Not what they require as input.

This is very helpful!

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

Storage:

C DRIVE NVME M.2 1TB SSD GEN 4

D DRIVE NVME M.2 2TB SSD GEN 4

E DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

F DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

G DRIVE HDD 1TB

Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 10:43 AM

Now the dilemma I'm facing rn is I have to choose between High bit rate (well over 50mb/s as what stated in the spec sheet) for 10Bit color

Or

 

Proper 50mb/s bit rate with wrong 8 bit color

 

 

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

Storage:

C DRIVE NVME M.2 1TB SSD GEN 4

D DRIVE NVME M.2 2TB SSD GEN 4

E DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

F DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

G DRIVE HDD 1TB

Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/7/2023, 12:38 PM

Now the dilemma I'm facing rn is I have to choose between High bit rate (well over 50mb/s as what stated in the spec sheet) for 10Bit color

Or

 

Proper 50mb/s bit rate with wrong 8 bit color

 

I think I mentioned that. While the solutions of the buses is great for the audio part, the more dramatic question is the question of 8 or 10bit. Seems to be an error in the specification - all what they have changed seems to be 8 bit to 10 bit in a chart. Vegas can both, but to keep the datarate exactly at the same level seems to be not foreseen.

I would contact the broadcast station, and ask for a clearification.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/7/2023, 12:47 PM

And: reading the historical documentations about xdcam - well: it was originally not 10bit format.

https://www.broadcaststore.com/pdf/model/809195/xdcam_xdcamex_prodbroch.pdf

https://pro.sony/s3/cms-static-content/uploadfile/15/1237494517315.pdf

So I wonder what they really want? The classical XDCAM, or a newer 10bit file - for HDR or whatever?

However, more modern camera systems like the FS7 were updated with XAVC-I codecs, using 10bit.

Brian-Smith6937 wrote on 3/7/2023, 4:53 PM

The media information you presented is what was recorded? What are the delivery specs for the TV station? I produce TV spots all the time in North America (NTSC as opposed to PAL) Where I am I deliver in an MXF 422 50 MBPS HD (1920 by 1080p) with close captioning and interlaced. The big thing is delivery specs. what are those?

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 7:59 PM

After discussing with other senior editor and the production member, turns out the spec sheet provided by the station was wrong! "Typo error"

So yea, Sony MXF HD422, 25i is a correct render settings!

Thanks for the help @Wolfgang S. @john_dennis @Brian-Smith6937

Only thing left for me is to ensure my Audio Loudness is -23LUFS

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

Storage:

C DRIVE NVME M.2 1TB SSD GEN 4

D DRIVE NVME M.2 2TB SSD GEN 4

E DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

F DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

G DRIVE HDD 1TB

Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

Brian-Smith6937 wrote on 3/7/2023, 8:09 PM

Loudness is super easy with latest SoundForge pro. It's under normalize

RogerS wrote on 3/7/2023, 8:37 PM

Vegas has loudness meters. Should be easy to hit -23 with a bit of compression on peaks. I use plugins lile iZotope Nectar that are visually easy to understand.

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Vegas 19.648
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john_dennis wrote on 3/7/2023, 8:40 PM

@alifftudm95 said: "Only thing left for me is to ensure my Audio Loudness is -23LUFS".

Here's a very simplistic cheat sheet.

By simplistic, notice all the volume envelopes I added to deal with the shotgun blasts and other noises on a quiet October day in Georgia.

Last changed by john_dennis on 3/7/2023, 8:53 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

My main system:
Motherboard: ASUS ProArt Z790-CREATOR WIFI
CPU: Intel Core i9-13900K - Core i9 13th Gen Raptor Lake 24-Core (8P+16E) P-core Base Frequency: 3.0 GHz E-core Base Frequency: 2.2 GHz LGA 1700 125W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071513900K
GPU: Currently intel on-die video adapter
RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance 64GB (2 x 32GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 5600 (PC5 44800) Desktop Memory Model CMK64GX5M2B5600C40
Disk O/S & Programs: WD Black SN850 NVMe SSD WDS100T1X0E - SSD - 1 TB - PCIe 4.0 x4 (NVMe)
Disk Active Projects: 1TB & 2TB WD BLACK SN750 NVMe Internal PCI Express 3.0 x4 Solid State Drives
Disk Other: WD Ultrastar/Hitachi Hard Drives: WDBBUR0080BNC-WRSN, HGST HUH728080ALE600, 724040ALE640, HDS3020BLA642
Case: LIAN LI PC-90 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Case
CPU cooling: CORSAIR - iCUE H115i RGB PRO XT 280mm Radiator CPU Liquid Cooling System
Power supply: SeaSonic SS-750KM3 750W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Drive Bay: Kingwin KF-256-BK 2.5" and 3.5" Trayless Hot Swap Rack with USB 3
Sound card: Realtek S1220A on motherboard. Recording done on another system.
Primary Monitor: ASUS ProArt 31.5" 1440p HDR10 Monitor PA328QV
O/S: Windows 10 Pro 10.0.19045 Build 19045
Camera: Sony RX10 Model IV

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedennischannel

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 10:53 PM

In a meanwhile, I was advice to use this plugin to increase "pass" QC for the audio. It can't be too consistant as they will reject it and seen it as "mono"

https://polyversemusic.com/products/wider/?fbclid=IwAR3xnMZAMyNOmZJK9BBvTYNxYUA5g1Kgy_zBcjEfMyqlFdb2tBecQhd5UEE

After installing this plug, it showed up in Resolve VST, but not in VEGAS?

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

Storage:

C DRIVE NVME M.2 1TB SSD GEN 4

D DRIVE NVME M.2 2TB SSD GEN 4

E DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

F DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

G DRIVE HDD 1TB

Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

Musicvid wrote on 3/7/2023, 10:54 PM

Hint: -23LKFS ATSC/A85 also conforms with -23LUFS EBU/R28, but not necessarily the other way around.

My go-to Limiter/Compressor with calibrated Loudness scales is the unmatched Toneboosters Barricade. You can use it in Demo mode, and there is actually a free version, but you have to hunt for it.

Note: This particular example was normalized to -15LUFS for Streaming, not -23LUFS for Broadcast delivery.

The tiny bit of distortion in my orchestra mix at 1:25 is in the recording, not the processing. I conducted it in 2007.

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 11:11 PM

In a meanwhile, I was advice to use this plugin to increase "pass" QC for the audio. It can't be too consistant as they will reject it and seen it as "mono"

https://polyversemusic.com/products/wider/?fbclid=IwAR3xnMZAMyNOmZJK9BBvTYNxYUA5g1Kgy_zBcjEfMyqlFdb2tBecQhd5UEE

After installing this plug, it showed up in Resolve VST, but not in VEGAS?

Manage to resolve dis with locating the VST2 path.

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

Storage:

C DRIVE NVME M.2 1TB SSD GEN 4

D DRIVE NVME M.2 2TB SSD GEN 4

E DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

F DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

G DRIVE HDD 1TB

Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

alifftudm95 wrote on 3/7/2023, 11:16 PM

Hint: -23LKFS ATSC/A85 also conforms with -23LUFS EBU/R28, but not necessarily the other way around.

My go-to Limiter/Compressor with calibrated Loudness scales is the unmatched Toneboosters Barricade. You can use it in Demo mode, and there is actually a free version, but you have to hunt for it.

The bit of distortion in my orchestra mix at 1:25 is in the recording, not the processing. I conducted it in 2007.

Dis is nice to have

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX2060 6GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

Storage:

C DRIVE NVME M.2 1TB SSD GEN 4

D DRIVE NVME M.2 2TB SSD GEN 4

E DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

F DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

G DRIVE HDD 1TB

Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR

 

 

 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/8/2023, 12:02 AM

After discussing with other senior editor and the production member, turns out the spec sheet provided by the station was wrong! "Typo error"

The broadcast station has done that for the first time? And never corrected the wrong charts? Unbelievable!

Todd-A0 wrote on 3/8/2023, 12:19 AM

Auto GOP and VBR often can result in non compliance and rejection.

rraud wrote on 3/8/2023, 9:44 AM

For a quick loudness read-out of entire program, I use Sound Forge Pro's "Statistics" process which can analyze a one-hour program in about one minute. The factors can also be saved to the clipboard to print or otherwise document. It does not change the loudness though. The (LUFS) 'Integrated' (entire program) and (dBTP) 'True peak' are the most important for b'cast submissions. If not, your submission will likely be rejected (and you will be shamed).

Musicvid wrote on 3/8/2023, 10:52 AM

 The (LUFS) 'Integrated' (entire program) and (dBTP) 'True peak' are the most important for b'cast submissions. If not, your submission will likely be rejected (and you will be shamed).

Absolutely the truth. Broadcast long-form limits are essential (when dealing with scrupulous outlets); basically the FCC (US) still lets short-form advertisers get away with murder. Essential reading from NAB.

https://www.nab.org/documents/resources/CALMBestPractices.pdf