Choosing best sound output codec

andyrpsmith wrote on 10/7/2022, 5:47 AM

After choosing Voukoder 4K H264 60/120 vbr 2pass .mp4 for my video output I have been looking at sound output options. The input is 4K XAVCS which has 2 channel PCM and I add a music background track which is usually MP3. Standard is to use Vouloder AAC which does sound good. I liked the idea of a lossless/uncompressed final output option so tried the uncompressed option (PCM 16bit) which gives an AVI output file which sounds good with a 4.7 times larger sound size compared to AAC. The file plays fine on PC and LG TV. I also liked the idea of FLAC a lossless compression codec which Voukoder also supports. The default file output when using this is AVI however the file plays (Potplayer) with no sound on PC and LG TV says the video does not support sound. Media info shows the audio stream as FLAC. Also V20 will not import this file. If I rewrap the AVI file to MP4 it plays fine on PC and TV but V20 will not import it, V20 will play a MP3 converted to FLAC via its inbuilt flac.dll. If I render with Voukoder and output the file as .MKV it plays on PC and LG TV fine but will not import back into V20. Anyone know what's going on? (Also V20 will import the rewrapped files but the sound is a very loud screech so is not being decoded).

Comments

Dexcon wrote on 10/7/2022, 6:22 AM

Unless file size is a specific problem, PCM is an all-round solution which, as it seems that you've already found out, plays on almost anything. If you are using the rather highly compressed .mp3 audio format on the timeline, using a higher performance audio render format is unlikely to improve the audio from those .mp3 audio events. Similarly, adding red GT stripes to the sides of a Datsun 120Y will not improve the performance of the car (or make the drum brakes work more than some of the time 😀).

Vegas Pro 20 specs for imported audio are: AIFF, AAC, MP2, MP3, M4A, OGG Vorbis, WAV, WMA, FLAC

Musicvid wrote on 10/7/2022, 7:13 AM

Since you have high quality camera audio, the question becomes, "Will the product be for your own use, or do you plan to deliver it?" Delivery options these days are generally limited and often mediocre (AAC).

You can deliver your product as BluRay with PCM, something audio-aware editors like to do.

I would ditch the mp3 background track and use something befitting your camera audio. You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

edoardo-l wrote on 10/7/2022, 7:38 AM

For my videos I prefer to render with Voukoder and merge the pcm audio track with MKVToolNix (fast and easy).

andyrpsmith wrote on 10/7/2022, 12:05 PM

Many thanks for the comments, the video is for family use. Listening via my B&W headphones they all sound virtually identical so it looks AAC is fine with its smaller file size. Also trying the Voukoder dtsHD option crashes V20 every time.

Musicvid wrote on 10/7/2022, 12:25 PM

PCM cutoff frequency is ~20Khz

AAC cutoff frequency is 16-17Khz

MP3 is even less at typical bitrates

rraud wrote on 10/8/2022, 1:28 PM

The AAC audio format sounds decent at moderate and high bit rates. As a recall, the maximum is 512 bps. Naturally a higher bit rate results in a larger file size.. but it is usually small compared to the picture data.

Musicvid wrote on 10/8/2022, 3:23 PM

There was a time thirty years ago when I wouldn't have necessarily agreed; but time and a little nerve deafness have changed all that.

andyrpsmith wrote on 10/8/2022, 5:45 PM

I set the option in Voukoder for AAC to 512 and it does sound great through my Sonos Arc + Sub and One rears. I also played around with Roger's settings for CRF (CPU) video and was getting a Mean Square Error of 5 against the 2 pass VBR (60/120 bit rate NEVC) which gave 13. But the CRF gives 4min 28sec for a 23sec clip against 30sec for the VBR also the CRF (20) setting gives 317Mb vs 184Mb and an ave bit rate of 110Mbit. So as the 60/120 2 Pass VBR looks just as good as the CRF, is half the file size and is approx 9 times faster (using NEVC option) I am happy to use this in going from HD to 4K for my past projects. I am grateful to everyone who has been kind enough to reply with tips and advice both to this thread on the sound and the other thread on the video.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/final-output-codec--137028/

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 10/9/2022, 1:21 AM

For my videos I prefer to render with Voukoder and merge the pcm audio track with MKVToolNix (fast and easy).

@edoardo-l If you're using Voukoder, it's even easier... just choose 24-bit (or 16-bit) pcm on the audio tab and 'Qicktime (.mov)' on the output tab. It'll render a standard mov clip with a pcm audio stream.