Hey, thanks for all your hard work and all the ways you enrich this community!

Just a clarifying question- these are all intended to take photos in the listed color spaces and convert them to sRGB for use in Vegas? So for ProPhoto you'd take a photo that was saved in ProPhoto, then apply the LUT and it would appear normal on the timeline next to a regular sRGB photo?

I just ask because some of these color spaces are unusual for photos, so would videopal be the same concept but to use on a PAL video to bring it into Rec 709?

Have you tried Prophoto? I need some feedback. I've only tested Adobe.

The legacy spaces are there because they were available and easy to convert. If I was to predict their use, I would say Adobe 99%, ProPhoto 1%, and the rest 0%. I found them here. But fun to play with.

I think ProPhoto is okay, too. There are slight luminance and color differences between the three profiles, and I don't know if that's rounding errors or inherent to conversions between color spaces of quite different sizes. I think it's acceptable.

Testing it on an actual photo (16-bit ProPhoto PSD) it matches Photoshop well.

Huge before and after difference, too (split screen- left side is pre-LUT)

Are these LUTs for converting these formats to a Rec709 display? What about Rec2020 targeted output?

These LUTs appear to be converting for use on a Rec 709 timeline.

I don't have a full 2020 monitor to test with.

Glad Prophoto is working for you. The P3 cinema LUTS are a hoot! (D60, D65, DCI)

I can't say I understand what the LUT is doing, but the sRGB file and ProPhoto with LUT applied look different in HDR (HDR 10) mode.

HLG mode was much more similar though red and green hue is a bit off.

It looked worse (dull, washed out) when the color space was set to Rec 709 or sRGB.

I don't understand HDR mode very well.

I think we need a LUT that goes from sRGB, ProPhoto, etc. to Rec2020.

For remapping white point to get above 100 nits, can selecting the Rec 2020 input display transform/"color space" do this if the colors were mapped to Rec 2020 by the LUT? Not sure of order of operations here and it may matter.

As an alternative,I converted from ProPhoto to Rec2020 using ICCs in Photoshop, and then assigned the Rec 2020 color space in Vegas.

In HDR 10 mode it looks dull with white around 650 the Rec 2020 spaces with 1000, 2000, 4000 nits, etc. all clip whites.

In HLG mode whites get up to about 6600/10,000 with regular Rec 2020. If set to Rec 2020 / HLG 1000 it doesn't look bad and fills up the RGB parade:


I don't have an HDR monitor to actually view this with, though.

I think we need a LUT that goes from sRGB, ProPhoto, etc. to Rec2020.

I think my LUT pack does that, but probably inversely to your workflow.

Instead of going <from> ProPhoto <to> sRGB, my LUTS go <from> Unmanaged (sRGB) <to> ProPhoto (or whatever).

So it adds the profile information starting from square one, wherever that may be in the timeline color space.

I believe my LUTS are working correctly in 2020 space, but as the output, not as the input.

To "prove" this, I took a 4K HDR10 transport stream, flagged P3 color space, and opened it in a 32 bit linear project with no view transform; IOW perfectly flat.

I applied the P3DCI LUT, raised the whites a bit, and this is what I got.

If I apply the 2020 LUT, the results are pretty pleasing, too.

So, these LUTS can be looked at as a substitute for ACES and other color space profile tools, and it is expected they will start in an appropriate, non-managed space. And they give the impression of being quite accurate.

As far as going a second hop (ProPhoto->?->2020), it may not be necessary; transform just to one or the other. Let me stew on that for a while...

How are you in a Rec 2020 image space if there is no view transform? (I think you're still in an unmanaged sRGB-like space).

No view transform also takes you out of HDR mode, so I don't get what usage scenario this is for. Is it for avoiding ACES with SDR, or for color spaces where there aren't ACES IDTs?

In 32-bit full 1.0 without a view transform, colors look off (oversaturated and some shifted hues) when the LUT is applied to a ProPhoto still (either the chart or real picture). I rendered it as HDR 10 and it looks the same in the media player.

It looks good in 32-bit video mode:


I don't have any HDR 10 footage to test with.

Getting wide gamut photos accurately displayed in a wide gamut video color space (Rec 2020) was one scenario I was thinking of.

Give me one of your true ProPhoto camera images and I'll try to show you. I'm looking through the other end of the telescope, again, and it seems to be working so far.

The LUT replaces the transform. The LUT is agnostic to the output space, I still believe.

Yes, I used the LUT in place of the transform.

Here's data for X-Rite colorcheckers ("From X-Rite L*a*b* D50 (formulations AFTER Nov. 2014)") to start with- it's good for troubleshooting. The 8-bit TIFFs should work or 16-bit if converted to PSDs.
https://www.babelcolor.com/colorchecker-2.htm#CCP2_images

If you also want a camera image here is one exported as a ProPhoto file, also excitingly of a chart : )
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nhyi2b32spm280h/Colorchecker-1.psd?dl=0

It's a 16-bit PSD. I can convert to another format if you prefer.

I guess I was insensitive by asking for one of your production images, and yet I certainly understand.

So now you are asking if the transforms made to a reverse engineered, 1080x768 8 bit Macbeth chart work the same with a ProPhoto LUT in Vegas as with a ProPhoto ICC in Photoshop?

Yes they do. With a calculated SSIM of .9965 (ffmpeg). The pre-emptive condition being, of course, that the Vegas testing will be undertaken in the correct project and pixel formats (previously discussed to death...).

Adobe works. ProPhoto works. P3 cinema appears to work. Confidence is high. Feel free to share other use cases in Vegas.

Fun stuff!

I'm not trying to be ungrateful but can you expand upon when it works and under what test conditions? What exactly did you do? This is not 32-bit full mode, I take it?

For correct project and pixel formats I have found LUTs only work accurately with 8-bit full, video or 32-bit video. If it's user error, please describe the conditions upon which it will work.

I gave a link to ProPhoto synthetic/engineered files as they very much demonstrate what happens when you put a non-color managed ProPhoto file into Vegas. You don't need extended color gamut image data to see the difference (and don't have the variable of colormetric intents for converting out of gamut colors). The nice thing about charts is you can clearly see when things go awry.

I also supplied a file directly from the a camera I use for photography with a chart. It originated as a 14-bit raw and then white balanced and exported as a 16-bit ProPhoto PSD. If the LUT/Vegas can pass this test it can pass a test with any other image.

The problem with starting with a real-world image is that if you don't know what it is supposed to look like it may appear acceptable upon casual viewing. (Based on the chart in 32-bit full blue and red/magenta are the biggest problem areas so I'd have to make sure the image has such tones. Happy to supply that next.)

What exactly did you do?

Sure. I am a beginner at this, so I don't understand the rest of your question.

• Take an image with embedded profile information (Adobe RGB or ProPhoto). Open it in Vegas, taking special care to match all project settings and pixel formats exactly to the source. Turn View Transform off if active. Note that it looks different in Vegas than in Photoshop. If they look the same, get a different file.
• Now, add the LUT conversion in Vegas fx or Grading panel. Choose the corresponding profile (Adobe RGB or ProPhoto). After a short lag, the preview should change and the previews should now match. ≥ 99.5%
• 

Errata:

Did you know that changing the project pixel format from the source often changes the gamma internally and adds shadow frequency noise, making any test results useless?

Updated to include Canon EOS and Panasonic Color Grading LUTS.

Musicvid,

I think I am missing how to properly use your LUTs. For 15+ years I have shot raw still images, post processed in Adobe ACR (LR), and saved in AdobeRGB1998 as JPEGs. I import the stills into VP18 to create a slideshow and have been happy with the results.

After reading your post, I thought I might benefit by adding your AdobeRGB1998 LUT to the JPEGs to enhance the image, but when I did, in most cases all it did was over saturate the image, the images looked worse.

QUESTION: Am I using the LUT incorrectly?

Thanks in advance,

Rich

Hey, Rich.

Can you send me a couple of AdobeRGB JPGs to play with?

Sent you a PM with my email.

I sent you a pair. RAW and JPG Adobe RGB. Check your messages for the link.

@john_dennis ACES with the view transform to sRGB looks strange. How is it with view transform set to off?