That much more recent NLE that is likely being referred to in the OP's post is a relatively new NLE which has been built up from a very basic product and incrementally built upon adding new features over time. This is not unlike the approach to the one taken by Microsoft when it released W10, especially with Edge (replacing Internet Explorer). The first release of Edge was incredibly basic, but MS built it up incrementally over time, the reason being to my understanding was that problems with each new feature could be better identified and resolved rather than release a fully featured product at the outset and then having to track down coding problems that may well be caused by interaction between various features.

Even in huge corporations, multi-million $$$ computer systems introduced as far back as the 1970s or earlier face the same problems as does Vegas Pro these days. New coding often bypasses or detours earlier coding which likely in itself has a history of bypassing/detouring away from many other layers of earlier coding. Think back to Y2K when retired computer engineers were brought of retirement to consult on historic systems coding which current engineers didn't have the depth of knowledge about.

The OP's supposition is admirable, but even multi-billion $$$ companies/governments find the cost of developing a totally new computer software system to be prohibitive.

@adimatis

No one, including developers, can disagree that changes are needed in some areas. And changes are being made, with exciting new features and a willingness to dump features that weren't exciting. Refloating the Titanic full of passengers may not be the best way to go about it.

Do you code?

I too have all confidence the future will be even brighter, and do appreciate the efforts of the Vegas team, no doubt! I also do have an (no specialist) idea on how monumental the overhaul work would be... I just think it is needed!

Let's look at Serif company, I love their products too. IN fact, my first video editor was their own MoviePlus X4, which ceased to exist anymore, a great little program. I also have their PagePlus desktop publishing... Anyway, some years ago, they announced a complete re-make of their core programs. Some were abandoned, some were re-invented in a more modern fashion that made them actual. For instance, their old PhotoPlus was made into the new Affinity Photo, which became one of the top competition for the all-mighty Photoshop, while still retaining the ease of use and simplicity. This was just an example.

However, there are little things that Vegas should update. Look, the other day I needed to do some work which involved a lot of automation on a vocal track on top of music - an audio ducking task. A sidechain compressor would have been excellent - not available in Vegas! I mean the compressor is available, but the procedure cannot be done as "some hosts do not support the operation" - I think that was the message that came off. So, did it manually, no problem, but a modern NLE could for sure have this feature, especially given the audio roots it has. Again, just an example.

Then, reading around the forum, the most common problem is about GPU integration. This should be seen as a priority - the advice "just disable the GPU" should never be given anymore! There is no work in Vegas with GPU disabled, come on!

The scripting is great, but you know what would be even greater - implement those in Vegas, natively. Just like the Motion tracking is! And make them work better and more reliable! Add a bit of eye-candy to the interface - more than was attempted in the last 4-5 versions. Give-up on Windows XP era!

I love Vegas and I hope the progress will continue and will re-create this very good product! I do have that confidence! And I am encouraged by your "peeks" and I do take your word for it! :)

@Musicvid Nope, but I am sure your point to me is not that obvious. :) If my client requires me to give their video a more modern feel, I do not ask them to go and edit their own version! :)

However, there are little things that Vegas should update

I agree. And you should start your thread with that, not a broadside. There are many posts proposing feature requests, and I hope you will join in them with your visions. And details.

When people suggest to disable the GPU, it isn't as a fix, but rather as a diagnosing tool so we can know if the problem is indeed GPU related, which most of the time (80-90%) is resolved with a simple GPU driver update, so that issue isn't as bad as it might seem from the outside.

A sidechain compressor would have been excellent - not available in Vegas!

Here's a method for doing it in Vegas with just the native plugins... not a neat method, but it works.

There's also VST plugins that work. This is a paid one, but there's free ones out there.

@Musicvid

Yeah, funny thing, I did a while ago... :) But maybe it is not done in a very proper manner, I don't know.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-17-suggestions-feature-requests--113252/?page=4#ca734212

Anyway - let's see what future holds. There are probably another good six months before v18 will be released. Given the updates on Movie Studio 17, I anticipate the Vegas Pro 18 will be rather consistent.

@fr0sty

Yes, I have learnt about that... And appreciate the suggestion! I would have liked much more to have eFX Compressor doing it, instead. Especially as it has the sidechaining functionality.

But about GPU driver updates... Don't get me started! :) In my case, the DOWNGRADE to a much older driver is the solution to keep Vegas functional. As I explained it on several occasions, the ONLY driver that works for my 1050Ti GPU with Vegas is 399.24. The most recent is 445 if I am not wrong.

Thanks guys!

I thought that there was a good observation in a comment in another post very recently about audio capabilities, and that comment was that at least one other competing NLE doesn't attempt to provide a complete audio solution within the NLE rather the user needs to export to ProTools (additional cost) to deal with audio.

If using Vegas 17, the 10 series GPUs from Nvidia are on the older end of what is recommended based on my observations. The 16 or 20 series seem to be the best bet from Nvidia. Vegas' demands are going to start requiring more of our hardware as new features are added, so I only expect to see that continue with 18. Might be a good time to consider and update, as we get ready to move into the next version later this year (hopefully, assuming previous release trends hold true).

Don't expect too much.

Actually, Vegas Pro didn't have too much innovations since Vegas add OFX feature.

There are some improvement which I am impressed with:

Vegas 15 add dark skin. This is a big code changes. But the gap among windows looks a bit large;

Vegas 16 add Besier mask to motion track. But it didn't have a UI to apply motion track or stabilization to other events unless you use a script and PIPFX and other several steps. If you have not seen this tutorial, you can't know how you should do it at all. This is not like after effects which have a UI to apply motion tracking and stabilization;

Vegas 17 add a color grading panel and it seems more professional. But the parameters can't be keyframed. However not every event need a constant color grading. Sometimes it should be keyframed;

And the besier mask's motion tracking keyframe can't be made full use of. Such as apply to Lens Flare's positon parameters;

And Vegas velocity don't adjust event's legth automatically realtimely. I don't know this is .NET programing's limit or other limit;

Vegas don't have a transplantable keyframe system. A parameter's keyframe can't be apply or copy to other plugins' parameter. And the keyframe's curve is not improved. The curve is not a real besier curve and it can't draw a exponential or other math curve shape;

There is still no event level's blend mode. For do some blend mode, you should place one clip in one track. It will waste much timeline's space.

And 3D track motion are mixed with custom-composite-plugins, actually they are different feature should be separated. So that when you do 3D track motion, you can add a displacement FX in the meantime.

Vegas' event FX can't access other track's event, this make Vegas' almost all plugins are one clip-based. You can't use a advanced plugin in eventFX, such as Mocha Pro. If you apply Mocha to eventFX, it can't attach other track's event to the motion tracking. You have to apply mocha to custom-composite-plugins. It will occupy 3D track motion. And custom-composite-plugins FX will input whole track time to mocha rather than a clip's time. Whole track time is too long and will make Mocha track inconvenient.

.......

All this innovations need big big code changes and big technical supports. And it may make new Vegas can't open old projects. If you VEGAS Team don't have too much resources, they aren't able to make how big innovations.

Just some gossip, sorry for the non-first English.

Yes, for sure I am at the low end with my system, but it is still alright for my needs.

I attach here two shots on how the resources are utilized in comparison with another editor, for an identical project. First image is Vegas.

That's why I say a better implementation of GPU is needed.

There are some workarounds that help with some of those issues, you just have to approach it from a different angle until they can get that sorted.

Vegas 17 add a color grading panel and it seems more professional. But the parameters can't be keyframed. However not every event need a constant color grading. Sometimes it should be keyframed;

To have color grading effects change over time, try this.

take one event, and split it where the change needs to happen. Grade each side of the split differently, then fade (or use another transition) the 2 events into each other.

Vegas' event FX can't access other track's event,

You can right click an event, copy the event, and then right click another event, and "paste event attributes", or make a preset for that effect and call it up on each event or track you need. Not the most elegant solution, you can't selectively paste effects, so you have to paste all of them or none of them, but it does work to get around this limitation somewhat.

Other things you mention, don't be mad if they don't get to them all by version 18, they can only do so much at once, but I'll say based on what I've heard, at least some of these things are indeed slated to get fixed in the future. I can't say which, or when, but I've heard the team mention them before. They are indeed listening.

.......

All this innovations need big big code changes and big technical supports. And it may make new Vegas can't open old projects. If you VEGAS Team don't have too much resources, they aren't able to make how big innovations.

Just some gossip, sorry for the non-first English.

@lan-mLMC You put it correctly, never mind the English.

I for one would be very happy to make sure I don't need to open old projects, as a trade off with having a newly designed Vegas.

I do not know how big the Vegas team is, I just know they aren't that many altogether.

But, in general, what would be the plan about this, do you think? After all, no matter the size of the team, it is about the project - the team will be adjusted number and ability wise according to the objective of the project.

If Vegas wants to be competitive, it will eventually need to be modernized and optimized. And I trust this is the case. I would say as early this happens as better, as I guess that's the only way to make and keep the customers happy. :)

@fr0sty It is exciting to hear your information about VEGAS Pro's future.

@adimatis Wait to see VEGAS Pro's progress.

Yeap, I am not going anywhere, I like working with Vegas! Is just that in some cases I need to work with something else because I cannot find what I need or prefer, with it. Sometimes workarounds are possible, but not always.

I do trust v18 will be good. Will it be refreshed though or only improved?

I am happy to see this topic is staying positive. Often, posts similar to these tend to turn negative.

I think it would be fair to address some of this. I cannot go into great detail, but I can make some comments about this...

I do not know how big the Vegas team is, I just know they aren't that many altogether.

I will admit that this is indeed the case. We do not have a very large team. However, the engineers we do have are really good and output much more than would normally be expected from a team of this size. That said, the team has grown and is currently about double the size it was when MAGIX purchased the products four years ago.

All this innovations need big big code changes and big technical supports.

The sort of overhaul that is suggested is just not possible to do from a business standpoint. In fact, the previous owner of these products attempted this (anyone remember Catalyst?), and it pretty much bankrupted them. Can it be done, yes. And it has been done by companies like Apple and Adobe. We, however, are not a company like Apple or Adobe. For a complete overhaul, it would take a huge financial backing, lots of time, and, if the project is done properly, you would not see any significant updates to the software for around 3 years. A number of our engineers have been through this complete overhaul process when we worked for the previous owner of these products. VEGAS was put on the back-burner and a team 5 times the size of the current VEGAS team attempted to do what is being suggested here, a complete overhaul. And that team failed to get the task done in a complete enough manner to save the group from being dismantled.

Does this mean big changes to VEGAS cannot happen? Absolutely not. We plan on updating and modernizing VEGAS, but it will be required to be done piece by piece. We also need to balance any rework with new features, otherwise our users will not have a compelling reason to upgrade.

We have been partnering with some big name companies (ie: Microsoft, Intel) to assist in some of these efforts. Those efforts have been reflected in our GPU handling and HDR workflow. Other partnerships will push us to modernize our user interface, update our video processing and incorporate features which exploit new hardware and software innovations.

For the engineers at VEGAS Creative Software, it is an exciting time as we explore new technologies and we have a parent company that is very supportive in our efforts.

VEGAS Pro 18 development is well on its way and we are excited to present it to the world. Will it have everything you all want in it? I am afraid not. However, we are aiming to make this an extremely compelling upgrade for our current users and a very attractive option for new users as well.

Well said, and an excellent summation! I support your vision and direction entirely, and will be thankful for new features, not thankless for what I don't have.

That is, if I am able to afford an upgrade in my lifetime, which may not outlast the daunting certainty of prolonged economic recovery.

@VEGASDerek

@VEGASDerek

As I started this thread I will be the first (edit: second) to say I am happy to hear from you confirming what all of us would like to see, that is a continued effort for Vegas to be and stay actual.

No negative turns here, we all love it! :)

In fact, I think all of us, or many indeed, would be ready to give credit for future development to your team, given the progress after v14. And maybe even without an in-depth overhaul but with the addition of much needed modern touches, both in UI and functionality, Vegas can still be the first choice for many editors, despite some serious competition from other houses.

Thank you for your reply!

I am more positive now... ;)

Looking forward for some more details, in due time of course!

Adi

@VEGASDerek Thanks for your introduction of some situation. I know that in your reworking and developing new features, some old plugins may be abandoned such as legacy text, Protype Titler. Actually, legacy text is compatible with many Asia language fonts but Title and Text can't ; Protype Titler is a very powerful animated 2D titler plugin, especially its cascade feature and abundant keyframe curves.

You are supposed to think over it before you decide to abandon them. Sorry for the non-first English.

@VEGASDerek

One more thought about this - could it be that the UI gets a unified, consistent look?

I am talking about the several bits an pieces - probably due to the addition along the years without a ”unifying” decision being made - that are rather disparate and brake the ”togetherness” of it all. The UI is different from one plug-in to another, the program windows are different, etc.

Could it be that at least these would be put together nicely? :)

And dare I ask - are these decision taken already for Vegas 18 or there is still room to improve?

Thank you!

@adimatis VEGAS's is based on orignal .NET WinForms' UI. The WinForms' UI are a bit outdated.

If want to make the UI more modern, Maybe VEGAS team need Devexpress controls which is also adopted by Vegasaur. We can see Vegasaur's UI and theme are more modern than VGEAS Pro.

However, if change orignal .NET WinForms' UI to Devexpress controls, all variable names of window and other controls' will be changed. It will make almost all codes need to de modified. This is a heavy workload.

I wonder whether VEGAS team will do it or not.

Thanks for this explanations... I am not knowledgeable with these aspects, so I can only hope it is possible. :)

Right now I am in Vegas and here is exactly a prime example of what I am saying: with plug-in Color Correct (Secondary), on the Parameter tab, the UI is consistent with the main theme, somehow... So it looks good. But immediately next to it, the Custom tag is looking exactly (I believe) as it was under the first Sonic Foundry release!

And there are so many other plug-ins in this situation... Curves is another main one that kept probably the very first appearance through so many updates. While some others are reasonably integrated with the rest of the UI.

So, if a "properly modern" interface would require too much work, I guess it is still possible to make the actual interface more consistent.

Another example: when clicking lets say on the Menu Bar (black text on white) Options (white text on black, consistent with the theme) Preference (White again on black, tabs etc like in pre-v13)

You know what I mean?