Comments

Musicvid wrote on 5/24/2017, 7:19 PM

Back up a page and read the FAQ.

bigrock wrote on 5/25/2017, 2:56 AM

Yea Nick thanks for your post. I knew about  that. On a new machine now with a clean install and I have not installed Quicktime due to it's security problems. I was more alluding to the fact that is unacceptable we are still having to jump through hoops with this product. It is simply unacceptable this incredibly basic issue has not been dealt with in the product. I consider the product to be flawed without this basic support.

gary-rebholz wrote on 5/25/2017, 10:49 AM

I consider the product to be flawed without this basic support.

So do we.

It is simply unacceptable this incredibly basic issue has not been dealt with in the product.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's a matter of perspective. We fixed so many things in VP 14 that where really troublesome for users and I'm sure were also "incredibly basic" in someone's eyes (for the record, few things in this complex software code are as incredibly basic as people seem to think they are, and least of all file I/O). We're still fixing things that are problematic. We still have a lot of catching up to do with problems that languished for far too long before the software transferred ownership. But I hope you'll understand that we can't just completely stop future development to fix all of those problems. I understand your pain, and am quite sorry for it. Unfortunately we can't fix everything all at once. That doesn't mean we're ignoring this problem. We are aware of it and will get to it in due course.

wwaag wrote on 5/28/2017, 2:55 PM

Vegas isn't the only editor with this problem--Premiere has the same issue. The problem with iPhone video is that it uses variable framerate recording. High end editors such as Vegas and Premiere require a constant framerate. A very useful app for iPhone video is FiLMiC Pro which gives the user much greater control over frame size, frame rates, etc., but unfortunately does not include a constant framerate option. Their recommendation is to use something like Handbrake for transcoding into a format more suitable for editing.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 5/29/2017, 4:46 PM

I was shocked to see Vegas 14 can not open a standard iPhone .MOV video file.

What exactly is a "standard iPhone .MOV file" to you? because I can drop HD 1920x1080-30p video files directly from my iPhone 6 to Vegas Pro 14 and play them back and edit them without any problems. I also can use FiLMiC Pro which gives you far greater control and quality and those files play back fine in Vegas Pro 14 as well. Wayne is correct that they are using a variable frame rate but Vegas Pro 14 (Build 211) seems to handling it fine for me. So I'm not sure why you think this isn't possible because it is.

~jr

bigrock wrote on 5/31/2017, 5:23 PM

By standard file I mean standard 4k file produced by the native Apple iPhone App on the iPhone Se, 6 or 7 without any modification. I think if you have Quicktime installed it will open. I moved to a new machine and never installed Quicktime because of the security problems that are inherent with it, and thus it has been discontinued. I am also using Build 211 and it cannot open Filmic 4k files, 4k standard iPhone files, or HD standard iPhone files.

bigrock wrote on 5/31/2017, 5:24 PM

Vegas isn't the only editor with this problem--Premiere has the same issue.

I just tried opening the same file in the latest Premiere (not a fan) and I had no issue - sound and video no problem. I thought they embedded that in the latest versions as of last year.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 6/2/2017, 12:06 PM

By standard file I mean standard 4k file produced by the native Apple iPhone App on the iPhone Se, 6 or 7 without any modification.

Ah.. OK. My iPhone 6 does not produce 4K (I believe you need at least a 6s for that) so I can't test this and yes, I do have QuickTime installed because the security exposure is so infinitesimal compared to the huge security problems they find every week with the core Windows OS (e.g., WannaCry) that it's laughable that anyone would even worry about it.

~jr

wwaag wrote on 6/3/2017, 7:01 PM

Tried some 4K footage from my Se using FilMiC. You can import it into Vegas if you have QT installed. However, the preview is completely unusable--reminiscent of GoPro footage in V12. Having said that, you can easily remux it into an MP4 container and it will preview just fine. Best thing is to remux before loading it into Vegas. That way, QT is not needed. While remuxing "works", it's probably best to transcode to ensure a constant framerate. If there's any interest, I can post a reply from FilMiC support on this issue.

Nick Hope wrote on 6/3/2017, 11:04 PM

If there's any interest, I can post a reply from FilMiC support on this issue.

Yes please! :)

bigrock wrote on 6/3/2017, 11:32 PM

You can import it into Vegas if you have QT installed.

What we need is to have it working without QT installed. QT is a dead product and as time goes on will be a larger and larger security risk. I don't expose my customer's data to any unnecessary risk.

wwaag wrote on 6/4/2017, 12:05 AM

@Nick Hope

My question was whether FilMiC supported constant framerate recording. Here was the reply.

"Thank you for writing in. The issue is indeed likely one of variable frame rates. We have seen this problem with Adobe Premiere and it likely affects other 'non-QuickTime' based editors. They cannot support variable frame rates.

The app shoots as close to a constant frame rate as can be supported right now by the iOS video imaging framework. Shorter clips tend to be more 'rock solid' in frame rate adherence. Longer clips can end up with a variable frame rate. This is due to how the iOS framework prioritizes certain attributes over frame rate (including exposure and audio sync). (30fps is the most reliable frame rate setting as this is the native frame rate for iOS and why clips shot with the native camera are generally spot on at 30fps ...probably 90% of the time or more)."

When you import into Adobe or in your case Vegas, it will end up flattening out the video file to achieve a steady frame rate and that in turn can throw off the audio sync. This is not an issue with Final Cut Pro or iMovie. We are working with a contact at Adobe to see if there is anything they can consider including in an update to better use smartphone footage...and anything we do there likely will work better for other editors.

Premier users routinely have to include a transcoder such as handbrake (www.handbrake.fr) in their workflow for precisely the reasons mentioned above. Handbrake, is free and easy to use.....and hopefully a temporary requirement. Maybe give Handbrake a try?

Let us know if you have any other questions.

Best Regards,  FiLMiC Pro Support

@bigrock

At this point, it's up to you. Either remux or transcode and use Vegas or go with FCP or iMovie. It's really that simple.

bigrock wrote on 6/4/2017, 12:52 AM

I never realized what a piece of crap the iPhone truly is. It's inability to produce a stable frame rate makes it a complete joke as video capture device. I only use it while travelling but maybe I will have to carry an Rx100 for something small on the go. Has anybody had a similar issue with Android devices?

bigrock wrote on 6/4/2017, 12:53 AM

Interesting thread on Adobe on this problem where they said the best fix is to switch to Vegas. I would assume Vegas with Quicktime installed: https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1110005

JohnnyRoy wrote on 6/4/2017, 7:59 PM

I never realized what a piece of crap the iPhone truly is. It's inability to produce a stable frame rate makes it a complete joke as video capture device. ...Has anybody had a similar issue with Android devices?

Most mobile phones (Android & Apple) and some still image cameras, produce AVC/H.264 video that has a variable frame-rate. This is a very common condition. Most people would never know the difference.

The issue is indeed likely one of variable frame rates. We have seen this problem with Adobe Premiere and it likely affects other 'non-QuickTime' based editors. They cannot support variable frame rates.

So according to FiLMiC, it is actually non-QuickTime based editors that are having the problem supporting variable frames rates.

This is not an issue with Final Cut Pro or iMovie.

Because those systems run on a Mac which is QuickTime based and can handle variable frame rate video. I have absolutely no problem editing iPhone video in Final Cut Pro X on my Mac Pro. The message here is if you want to use a QuickTime based camera, you should use a QuickTime based editing system for the best editing experience. If you were using a Mac with FCP X you would have never even noticed this. You would have dropped your iPhone video into Final Cut Pro X and everything would have worked seamlessly.

I tell the same thing to people who buy a camera that shoots Apple ProRes and then want to edit it on Windows and can't believe all the hoops that they have to jump through. If you want to shoot Apple ProRes, buy an Apple Mac. Its pretty simple. The right tool for the right job. Windows has never been and will never be a good platform for working with QuickTime files; they are native to the Mac.

~jr

bigrock wrote on 6/4/2017, 10:05 PM

It will be a very cold day in hell before I would be foolish enough to waste a single dollar on an Apple machine. If you need a MAC Pos to so Apple Prores the codec would have abandoned by the industry already. Sorry not trying to offend but Macs are the weaklings of the computer world and are VASTLY overpriced.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 6/5/2017, 6:38 PM

It will be a very cold day in hell before I would be foolish enough to waste a single dollar on an Apple machine.

Well, foolish as it may seem... while I'm productively editing iPhone video on my Mac, you are spending time in forums trying to figure out how to re-encode all of your video to edit it on Windows. ;-)

I'm not saying this without good reason. I've been a forum moderator at the Creative COW for many, many years and I can't tell you how many people have posted over the years that they can't edit the video from their cameras that shoot ProRes or other QuickTime formats and they waste days or weeks looking for a solution and then hours and hours every time they need to get ready to edit, re-encoding their video, and I just shake my head and say to myself, "...if you had bought a Mac you would be editing video by now".

I'm not saying Mac's are better than PC's. There are certainly video formats that are native to PC's that Mac's don't like and need to be transcoded to ProRes before editing. All I'm saying is that if you want to work with QuickTime video, you would be doing yourself a huge favor by using a system that was built on QuickTime and that happens to be the Mac. I get it, that you will never buy one.

~jr

Nick Hope wrote on 6/5/2017, 11:30 PM

Every time I study this it seems something fishy is going on and we might all be being led astray. I have 4 samples from different iPhones on my system. This is what MediaInfo says:

iPhone 6 Plus:
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 30.000 FPS
Minimum frame rate : 30.000 FPS
Maximum frame rate : 31.579 FPS
VP14 matches this at 30.026 FPS

iPad mini 2:
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Minimum frame rate : 28.571 FPS
Maximum frame rate : 30.000 FPS
VP14 matches this at 29.970 FPS

iPhone 5s:
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Minimum frame rate : 28.571 FPS
Maximum frame rate : 30.000 FPS
VP14 matches this at 29.981 FPS

iPhone 6s:
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 24.000 FPS
VP14 matches this at 24.000 FPS

If I put these files on a Vegas timeline, they all just behave like constant frame rate. Zoom in on the timeline as far as possible and the frames all appear to quantize precisely. Perhaps Vegas routinely displays frame boundaries at the average frame rate and just displays the nearest frame. A genuinely VFR sample with a large FR variation would help confirm that, if someone has one.

Furthermore, if I switch between disable resample and force resample, no pixels move on the video scopes. Perhaps this would start to show itself on longer files.

It seems to me that either these files are not really VFR, or the variation is so small that it doesn't matter and we can just set disable resample and forget it. The bigger issue is that they don't conform to standard frame rates.

@Musicvid's comment here is relevant to this discussion.

EricLNZ wrote on 6/6/2017, 3:24 AM

@Nick - Try taking a shot in poor light. That's when the VFR really kicks in. Not only does the FR drop but it also varies. I've just tried with my cheap Android phone and in a poorly lit room it varied between 6.135 and 9.975 with an average of 9.912 (according to MPC-HC). Dragging the mp4 file into MS14 and the Frame rate is also shown as 9.912. In a 50i project with 25fps the timeline at 1 sec is between frames 9 and 10 being much nearer 10 probably representing 9.912.

eldred wrote on 6/6/2017, 6:23 AM

After EricLNZ pointed out the variable frame rate in phones, then I realized that the frame rate is not locked in (to a standard or fixed fps) and is variable in a single video recording according to light levels the sensor is receiving.

bigrock wrote on 6/6/2017, 12:07 PM

Sounds like we are getting to the heart of that matter. Am I the only one who thinks a variable frame rate is a complete joke?

john_dennis wrote on 6/6/2017, 5:18 PM

"Am I the only one who thinks a variable frame rate is a complete joke?"

I have a long list of things that I think are a complete joke.

1) Cameras that record audio to compressed codecs, ac3 and aac.

  • With 35 Mbps and up saved in the wrapper, we can't afford to throw 1.536 Mbps at the audio? 

2) Search providers pushing targeted ads to me on four different systems and tablets for the camera that I happen to be reading about this week.

3) Press conferences that I don't want to watch where the spoken word is completely overwhelmed by the slamming of DSLR mirrors.

4) Apple convincing everyone that they alone have been successful at overcoming the laws of physics and are going to deliver stupendous sounding music on voice command (from iTunes only with a highly compressed streaming codec) with a speaker that is less than 1 cu. ft. without regard to the size of the room.

5) Point of sale terminals on every table at Olive Garden.

  • I don't allow electronic devices at my dinner table at home, why should I be subjected to it when I eat dinner out?

6) Variable Frame Rate Video.   

Former users wrote on 6/6/2017, 5:19 PM

Very good list.