Please FIX - 4k Proxy and Preview Half vs Full in 1080p project

pierre-k wrote on 4/14/2022, 12:56 PM

Can you please explain to me why there is such a difference in the video?

The 4k Proxy when setting the Preview Half is jagged and really ugly. If I switch it to Preview Full, the video is better, but still not ideal.

What is interesting:
If I load the proxy file sfvp0 into the project, it looks great on both Half and Full.

Is there anything that can be done about it?

I use Preview Half all the time, due to the smooth preview during editing.
The proxy on Preview Full complicates my work a lot, because I have other things in the project.

Comments

Yelandkeil wrote on 4/14/2022, 2:41 PM

Proxy will be used only by Draft-preview, if I am not mistaken.

Former user wrote on 4/14/2022, 2:47 PM

@pierre-k What size is the first media on the timeline ? & is the proxy 3840x2160?

Former user wrote on 4/14/2022, 2:58 PM

@pierre-k In your Preview it's set to Preview (Half) 960x540, but the preview Display is 1054x593, Vegas is downscaling from 1920 to 960 but then to display it it's upscaling to 1054, I try to set the Preview slightly higher than the Display, & you say the proxy is 4k but the project is set to HD 1920x1080 ?,

3POINT wrote on 4/14/2022, 4:34 PM

Proxies are downscales with 1280x720 resolution and used only in preview mode draft and preview. Setting the resolution of the preview to half in mode draft and preview will actually give you a 640x360 preview, which looks ofcourse very jagged. When using proxies use draft full or preview full.

pierre-k wrote on 4/14/2022, 5:08 PM

@pierre-k In your Preview it's set to Preview (Half) 960x540, but the preview Display is 1054x593, Vegas is downscaling from 1920 to 960 but then to display it it's upscaling to 1054, I try to set the Preview slightly higher than the Display, & you say the proxy is 4k but the project is set to HD 1920x1080 ?,

 

The project is 1080p. The sample video is 3840x2160. Proxy video is 1280x720.

The question is, why in Preview Ful and Half does the event converted to the proxy look awful, but the proxy file itself looks great?

pierre-k wrote on 4/14/2022, 5:17 PM

Proxies are downscales with 1280x720 resolution and used only in preview mode draft and preview. Setting the resolution of the preview to half in mode draft and preview will actually give you a 640x360 preview, which looks ofcourse very jagged. When using proxies use draft full or preview full.

 

4k convert to proxy. Preview Full

4k convert to proxy.. Preview Half

sfvp0 File 1280x720. Preview Half

 

Download Project for VP19:

https://we.tl/t-4svswwG3Uf

 

In my opinion, the proxy should work by converting demanding videos to 1280x720 and temporarily replacing the original with a sfvp0 files. There is no reason for the videos to be even more degraded in the preview. No?

So far, it's better to temporarily convert 4k files with an external converter to 720p and temporarily replace them in Vegas.

pierre-k wrote on 4/14/2022, 7:12 PM

Questions for Vegas team:

1. Can you disable this post degradation of proxy files in Preview half and full? I would like the videos to look the same as sfvp0 720p files.

2. Can you add the ability to create a proxy with the magix avc gpu codec? I think the convert time will be dramatically reduced.

3. Can you create a switch between Original and Proxy?

Thanks a lot.

Former user wrote on 4/14/2022, 7:37 PM
 

2. Can you add the ability to create a proxy with the magix avc gpu codec? I think the convert time will be dramatically reduced.

That is an option in other NLE's. Vegas tried it in early VP18 builds, even though it used GPU encoding it was much slower than XDCAM format. I was thinking they'd fix it and it would return as an option in VP19 but never did

lan-mLMC wrote on 4/14/2022, 7:59 PM

I have never used a proxy, it produces many huge files that I forget to deal with.

Former user wrote on 4/14/2022, 9:19 PM

When timeline resolution is reduced still further to 720P the problem is more obvious. Clip1 is playback Preview/Full via proxy, clip 2 is playback of proxy file brought onto timeline with same setting (Preview/Full)

It looks like a 2160P file on a 1080P timeline produces a playback proxy resolution of 360P, and on a 720P timeline it's 240P . It is only 720P on a 4K timeline. It is as if the scaling down of timeline resolution has a direct effect on proxy resolution.

Has it always been like this. I don't use proxies, either an introduced bug or it's always been like this, and you've rediscovered a limitation that surely people would have complained about in the past

Musicvid wrote on 4/14/2022, 10:27 PM

In your original sample, your first event appears to be interlaced.

pierre-k wrote on 4/15/2022, 4:27 AM

In your original sample, your first event appears to be interlaced.

It looks like interlaced but not.

pierre-k wrote on 4/15/2022, 4:43 AM

 

It looks like a 2160P file on a 1080P timeline produces a playback proxy resolution of 360P, and on a 720P timeline it's 240P . It is only 720P on a 4K timeline. It is as if the scaling down of timeline resolution has a direct effect on proxy resolution.

Has it always been likthis. I don't use proxies, either an introduced bug or it's alway

 

Yes. You're right. Looks like it.

I understand that this was amazing in the days of VHS and DVD, when you could edit with a proxy on old PCs, but now this artificial degradation to 240p is not necessary.

I think that during gpu support, proxies can also be converted to magix avc 1080p. The user decides what format he wants. Only the frame rate should remain according to the original.

And what about changing Proxy to NextGen Proxy?

And promote it to an internal converter? This means that you could import any files into Vegas, but for those without support, a Proxy would be automatically designed for you.

This Proxy could also work for AC3 and DTS.

Could licensing fees be circumvented in this way? Vegas would not edit the problematic codecs in this way, but on the entry it transferred to its internal.

Any suggestions?😉

Former user wrote on 4/15/2022, 5:12 AM

It looks like a very low bitrate transcode of the 720P proxy, reducing resolution and massively reducing quality. It reminds me of 2006 era Youtube 240P encoded in h.263 flash. especially the carpet falling apart with movement.,

They made a full retreat with h.264 hardware encoded proxies, but if it was an option and not the default it could have lived on until they fixed it,

Musicvid wrote on 4/15/2022, 6:45 AM

Can you upload your project to Drive or Dropbox? I will not download from a service that has a spamwall.

pierre-k wrote on 4/15/2022, 7:00 AM

Can you upload your project to Drive or Dropbox? I will not download from a service that has a spamwall.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L_AGjFFBBybv_4q9SuOms1PtWqHn37hr/view?usp=sharing

Musicvid wrote on 4/15/2022, 7:42 AM

Thank you. Can't wait to see what's causing this.

pierre-k wrote on 4/15/2022, 7:59 AM

Thank you. Can't wait to see what's causing this.

I'm looking forward to your discoveries.

I noticed this in previous versions and when I sometimes had to edit 4k, I didn't like using proxies for that reason. Now there are more 4k shots and a proxy is a necessity for me.

It's time to upgrade this feature.

3POINT wrote on 4/15/2022, 8:45 AM

When I'm understanding right this preview issue is only when using proxies within a 1080 project and setting preview to half. It's not happening when leaving project settings to 2160 and setting preview to half. I think setting preview to half with also setting projectsettings to half, is double.

pierre-k wrote on 4/15/2022, 9:10 AM

When I'm understanding right this preview issue is only when using proxies within a 1080 project and setting preview to half. It's not happening when leaving project settings to 2160 and setting preview to half. I think setting preview to half with also setting projectsettings to half, is double.

After further tests, this process seems to happen in all cases. There is always more video degradation than in the original Proxy file. The proxy event is slightly brighter than the sfvp0 file. There is a much bigger difference in a 1080p project.

This is a 4k project and Preview half:

proxy event

Sfvp0 file

pierre-k wrote on 4/15/2022, 9:38 AM

I also noticed that the sfvp0 file has half the framerate and plays slower in Timeline. It cannot be used as an adequate temporary exchange.

original

sfvp0 file

timeline

pierre-k wrote on 4/15/2022, 11:02 AM

Vegas vs Happy Otter script

The original 4K 59fps....................................................... 69MB
Vegas Proxy 720p............................................................ 42MB and looks awful.
Happy Otter Script Vegas Magix AVC 1080p 59fps ........ 14MB and looks Great

Transfer time for both plus and minus the same.

john_dennis wrote on 4/15/2022, 11:55 AM

Happy Otter Scripts

Folks! We have a winner here.

3POINT wrote on 4/15/2022, 12:52 PM

@pierre-k Vegas proxy is always an XDCAM 720p24 file, no matter the framerate of the original file.