VP 15 (b321) together with Neat Video (Pro 4.7) = UNUSABLE !

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 3/17/2018, 12:57 PM

Hi,

I just unfortunately updated to b321 due to the GUI problems. They were killing me (almost). However, it seems that there's still GUI redraw problems in some FX windows (redrawing themselves multiple times)... So this bug fix was probably hurried out from the door - but creates other serious problems:

I have a couple of MXF clips from a Sony X70 on the timeline that definitively needs noise reduction. Just a simple and short cut and NR project. If I apply Neat Video FX to the clips Vegas dies immediately when I select "render as" from the menu.... First Vegas goes white (not responding). Then the (un)famous "Vegas has stopped" popup appears. While filling it with my valuable and angry feedback - a broken "Render as..." popup window appeared. It had no texts and only the placeholder rectangles for the missing texts and controls... What is going on????

If I try to render straight to DVD or BluRay from the timeline - that seems to work OK! What is wrong with Vegas????

Is there anything that can save me and my project?

Thanks in advance for any advice and workarounds...

This bug fix must have been a quickie and not tested thoroughly - NO wonder MAGIX is not pushing it to us (no automatic announcement when opening our Vegases). They must know that it is very buggy and not properly tested. Beware and DO NOT update if you can avoid it. Burnt my fingers and schedules completely... Argh...

Christian

My system: i4720K CPUG, 24GB RAM, W10 Pro 64-bit, GPU GT1080Ti.

EDIT: 2 hours later...

Rendering this 6 minute video direct to Blurary has taken so far 2 hours. The render proceeded in the beginning at good speed (taking into consideration the noise reduction) at about 8 frames/sec. It has now stalled to about 1 frame in 4 seconds @ 97% completion. CPU load is about 50%, CPU load close to nil. Vegas cannot be trusted for any serious work, at least no work with a given schedule...

I will edit this mail when or IF the render completers some day...

EDIT2:

Amazing - two hours later the project HAD finished.... Slow but anyhow a result. But this is not how things should be...

Comments

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/17/2018, 1:57 PM

Christian,

I have here mxf files from my FS7 (UHD 50p, 10bit). If I apply Neat Video 4.7 it works for me. Also the Rendering.

I wonder what the difference is. What type of footage is your X70 footage in more detail?

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 3/17/2018, 4:15 PM

Christian,

I have here mxf files from my FS7 (UHD 50p, 10bit). If I apply Neat Video 4.7 it works for me. Also the Rendering.

I wonder what the difference is. What type of footage is your X70 footage in more detail?

Hi Wolfgang,

My files are mainly Sony XAVC Long MXF...Both 1920x1080 50p and 3840x2160 25p... What is stange here is that Vegas dies just trying to OPEN the "Render as" - window....

Rainer wrote on 3/17/2018, 6:19 PM

Vegas has a very long history of problems relating to opening the "Render As" window, but it did seem to get fixed to some extent since version 13 - it might be slow opening but at least it doesn't crash. Or not as often. Long time users know to do a save before opening the window, and often wait patiently for it to appear. If users become frustrated and try to open it again before it opens, it's a crap shoot. Wait two minutes, if nothing happens, close Vegas, restart and try again seems the only option.

marc-s wrote on 3/17/2018, 10:40 PM

I get a hard crash 90% of the time trying to open render as. Upgraded from 13 to 15 in hopes of solving this to no avail. The other 10% of the time it works perfectly. No rhyme or reason why. Really frustrating and the type of project or effects makes no difference. No other program I use from Adobe CS6, to Resolve to TMPEG ever crashes on rendering. Something is seriously F......d up in Vegas and I doubt they will ever fix it. I tried filing a ticket recently and they responding with a request for a screen shot. Ughhhh......

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/18/2018, 1:43 AM

Christian,

I have here mxf files from my FS7 (UHD 50p, 10bit). If I apply Neat Video 4.7 it works for me. Also the Rendering.

I wonder what the difference is. What type of footage is your X70 footage in more detail?

Hi Wolfgang,

My files are mainly Sony XAVC Long MXF...Both 1920x1080 50p and 3840x2160 25p... What is stange here is that Vegas dies just trying to OPEN the "Render as" - window....

I have seen here a similar issue with HD footage, but not with XAVC footage but with MPEG2 footage. Was with the build of Vegas15 before the update to 311 arrived.

So I do not know if it is related to Neatvideo or the type of footage really.

What helped for me was to start Vegas again after such a crash. Importe a single clip in the timeline. Open the render as dialog - what works with this single clip. Then load the longer project and then the render as dialog worked again here.

I do not know if that could help you.

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 3/18/2018, 7:16 AM

Thanks for all comments. The failure to open the "render as..." dialogue is a real showstopper... Just now I have no time to experiment what causes that problem, but it happens often... Too often...

If I can find any pattern causing it I certainly will report my findings....

Meanwhile @MAGIX, put all your efforts into making Vegas stable again. Nicks list would be nice to get shortened - all this before you add ANY new (probably) unusable new features. Vegas (and we ) deserve it.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/18/2018, 1:22 PM

There was a specific recommendation that I had observed on my system. Not worth to give a try?

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/18/2018, 1:29 PM

Question from the development team:

Does your processor supports any kind of QSV (one way to identify this would be to see if any Intel QSV presets were present in the Magix AVC/AAC renderer)?

fr0sty wrote on 3/19/2018, 2:12 AM

If you are still having issues, try this:

1. Disable So4compoundplug.dll - Hold shift while clicking on the preferences menu, you'll see a new tab on the menu called "internal" click it and do a search for "so4". Disable everything on the second line, the one related to AVC encoding/decoding.

2. Go into Neat Video settings, see if you are using GPU acceleration. If so, dial back the amount of video RAM it uses to 50% or less. Keep going down (all the way to the point of disabling the GPU in Neat Video) until you get a stable render.

3. Make sure you have the latest version of your GPU driver.

4. If this still fails, go into the preferences, under the video tab disable timeline GPU acceleration.

5. Try using "render to new track" instead of "render as". Sometimes this helps bypass render errors.

6. Check project settings. Set to 8 bit mode if it isn't already, see if problems persist after switching if you needed to.

7. If that fails, try a CPU only render with all forms of GPU disabled in both Vegas and Neat Video.

Not all of those issues are an ideal workaround, but if any of them works, it can help us isolate what the exact cause of the issue is. I know in my case, Neat Video gives me crap because Vegas doesn't always leave it enough VRAM to do its thing, so I have to go in and dial out the settings to enable it to have the RAM it needs without stepping on Vegas' toes. During an NVENC encode, Vegas is using the GPU to render the video from the timeline, then process it through Neat Video, then finally to encode it using NVENC. There's some RAM management issues going on currently that can throw a wrench in those spokes, leaving one or the other without RAM and causing a crash. They've been working on that end of it, I've been in touch with some of them about it and they seem to be making progress on an update that should solve many of these issues.

vkmast wrote on 3/22/2018, 7:22 AM

@Christian de Godzinsky see https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vp-15-b321-together-with-neat-video-pro-4-7-unusable--110775/#ca684672

joseph-w wrote on 3/22/2018, 9:27 AM

This isn't the answer you're seeking but I find using Neat Video in Virtualdub (different purchase) to preprocess videos and save as Cineform(free/~lossless) works amazingly well with Vegas. If you have space it's an option to consider. That way once the files are "Neated" anything reneres out of Vegas using the Cineform files will be much much faster. Doing it all in Vegas means any errors you have to fix will need to redo the neat process which is time consuming even w super fast rigs.

Have you posted on the neat forum also btw? The guy who does tech support over there is very good and responsive. Even if it's a Magic issue they might be able to issues a 4.7.# quick fix to work around the prob. The update in that fashion frequently when issues arrise since neat is available on many platforms (Inc virtualdub).