VEGAS Movie Studio 15 - General Discussion

Kommentare

huskereurocat schrieb am 05.03.2018 um 13:22 Uhr

I'm seeing exactly same issue EricLNZ described before but until now I was not able to repro a crash here. Maybe it is related to the grafic device used (Intel HD Graphics 520 here).

I don't see how this is related to a graphics device issue since I have a GTX 1050 powered powered by a Ryzen 7 1700 CPU. And there is no problems running the MSP14 version of the software. It has to be more fundamental than just a graphics issue, IMHO.

Marco. schrieb am 05.03.2018 um 14:46 Uhr

I really wonder what's the difference between the systems causing this issue. My system is a i7-6500U notebook with 2x 2.6 GHz, 16 MB RAM and Intel HD Graphics 520, so it's far from being a high-end system.

I often tried to repro now and the last time I did I made a new folder and collected bit more than 300 AVCHD clips (GH2, 720p50). I ensured I only copied the MTS files, not the SFK peak files. Also, I deleted both the Explorer and the Media Pool thumbnail cache of MS15. I then copied that folder to an external hard disc (I tried similar setup from an internal SSD before).

Opened a fresh MS15 project and in the MS Explorer I went to the folder of the 300 AVCHD clips. It took about a minute before the first(!) thumbnail was created and creating all 300 thumbnails lasted about 7 minutes (it took me to scroll the Explorer windows step by step to do so). While the thumbnails were in the process of being created, in the Explorer window of MS15 I switched to different folders and to different drives and SSDs. This caused no problem.

I then did something I actually never do in real productions (at least not for so many clips): In the Explorer window I selected all clips and dragged them to the Project Media window in one go. While Movie Studio seemed to to nothing, after about 5 minutes the 300 files were added to Project Media and it took another 5 minutes to create the peak files.

After all the clips including its peak files were fine in Project Media, again I dragged all of them to the timeline in one go. This only took some seconds. That timeline last about 2 hours and 58 minutes and editing that timeline works just fine.
After having saved this project, opening it anew takes about 5 minutes again.

So whatever I do, while I see heavy delays for loading, moving and thumbnail creations I'm just not able to repro a crash and in the end I can start (and finish) editing a project without too much hazzle.

And while this quite certainly appears to be a bug it looks like a specific system property (maybe together with certain file properties) is causing (or preventing) crashes in the end.

robbif2 schrieb am 05.03.2018 um 14:51 Uhr

I just downloaded and installed new version 15. As per what others have said, it takes a long time to open (over 1 minute), but the worst part, is that when I click File>Open, it immediately crashes. Anyone else see this? I'm hoping that they can reset my trial when the next build comes out. 🙁

If by "long time to open" you mean for VMS15 to start up: Do you have Boris Continuum installed?
See my  3/1/2018, 3:16 PM post where I observed 15's Creating Windows step take a lot longer than with VMS14. But then I discovered VMS14 showed Creating Windows much longer. Once I uninstalled Boris Continuum, 14's Creating Windows step time returned to it's original. Since I'd already uninstalled 15, I wasn't about to reinstall it until there's a new build. But if you have Boris installed, please uninstall it and see if your long time to open (especially the Creating Windows step) shortens. I don't know if it'll help your problems, but it's one more item we can address with Magix and/or Boris.

Marco. schrieb am 05.03.2018 um 15:09 Uhr

I'm just trying to find the cause of the problem and maybe sorting the differences between working and failing systems could help finding the missing link.

crofter schrieb am 05.03.2018 um 15:32 Uhr

Although I've never had a complete crash while loading or previewing video files with VMS 15 I quite often get a programme not responding message at the top for a while until it sorts itself out, this occurs with all different file types from different cameras.

Joe_BW schrieb am 05.03.2018 um 21:00 Uhr

Although I have "GPU acceleration of video processing" set to my NVIDIA card

That option setting has nothing to do with visible rendertemplates, that is for hardware acceleration of f.i. some FX's on preview and as a help at rendering, but not for a certain template.
Therefore you need the right GPU with updated driverversion so the program can recognise it for hardware rendering.
Which is your driverversion for that NVidia GPU?
Your used GPU is supported

Cornico - many thanks! You have solved one problem completely for me - regarding GPU rendering. My NVIDIA driver was really old (9.18.13.4752) and having now updated it to the latest version (23.21.13.9101) not only do I see all the NVENC render templates, but choosing one makes a HUGE difference to the render times...

A new quick test project (15 secs, 4k, 29.97fps, CBR 50mbps) that takes 1m54s to render with MainConcept AVC now takes just 33 secs to render with NVEncoder.

An old project created in VMS14 with multiple clips (3m22s, 4k, 29.97fps, CBR 50mbps) that takes approx 26 mins to render with MainConcept AVC in either VMS14 or VMS15 now takes just 7m51s to render with NVEncoder in VMS15

In both examples, that's about 3.4x faster with GPU acceleration. That is a huge improvement and will be well worth the upgrade, so long as the painfully slow project loading and thumbnail creation can be fixed.

Thanks again - really appreciate it.

robbif2 schrieb am 05.03.2018 um 23:05 Uhr

Re: GPU Rendering
I'm pretty sure of the (sad) answer, but wanted to triple check.
I have an EVGA 560Ti with Nvidia driver 344.11 (old version needed for VMS14 GPU support).
I read I need a 600+ card for the increased GPU performance with VMS15.
Just in case: Is there any chance that updating the driver will give me better VMS15 GPU support?
I know, I know, it's probably a hardware problem, but I can't swing that dreamed-of new card right now.
(Note this would only apply once I re-install VMS15 after the dust settles.)
Thanks for your patience.

VEGASDerek schrieb am 05.03.2018 um 23:30 Uhr

Hello everyone,

I wanted to give a little update about some of the performance problems some of you have been experiencing in regards to project loading and thumbnail drawing. We believe we have pinpointed the cause of the problem and are working on fixing it. We will get an update for this fix out to everyone as soon as we possibly can.

robbif2 schrieb am 06.03.2018 um 00:26 Uhr

Is there any chance that updating the driver will give me better VMS15 GPU support?

No chance because your card use the old GPU help with Cuda with the older codecs of f.i. Sony and/or Mainconcept AVC. And that was always most faulty.
For the newer codec Magix AVC you need the cards of 6oo and above with updated drivers.
The older cards don't have the NVENC hardware encode possibility with the Magix AVC codec of VMS 15.

Well, thanks for welding the reality!
Looks like I'll start buying Lottery tickets! 😆

robbif2 schrieb am 06.03.2018 um 00:32 Uhr

Hello everyone,

I wanted to give a little update about some of the performance problems some of you have been experiencing in regards to project loading and thumbnail drawing. We believe we have pinpointed the cause of the problem and are working on fixing it. We will get an update for this fix out to everyone as soon as we possibly can.

Derek, Thanks for the encouraging news.
Anything looked into about my observation: Apparent Boris Continuum affecting VMS14 Creating Windows step time to
at least double?

Markk655 schrieb am 06.03.2018 um 02:52 Uhr

@VEGASDerek Are you referring to the application crashing when one tries to open a project?

I've used Movie Studio for many versions. I have always installed them side-by-side. After install VMS 15 opens slowly. Once it loads, if I click open project, the program crashes before I can even navigate to a project file.

Worse, is that the install corrupted VMS 14 too! VMS 14 no longer loads at all.

I'm hoping for a fix soon.

 

robbif2 schrieb am 06.03.2018 um 03:12 Uhr

@VEGASDerek Are you referring to the application crashing when one tries to open a project?

I've used Movie Studio for many versions. I have always installed them side-by-side. After install VMS 15 opens slowly. Once it loads, if I click open project, the program crashes before I can even navigate to a project file.

Worse, is that the install corrupted VMS 14 too! VMS 14 no longer loads at all.

I'm hoping for a fix soon.

 


@Markk655 Did you see my reply to you just a little while ago?
I found that 15 Suite's Boris Continuum affected VMS14, specifically the significant lengthening of the Creating Windows at startup. It didn't cause a crash. But when I uninstalled it, VMS14 Creating Windows time returned to normal. So if you installed Boris Continuum, try uninstalling it and see if 14 maybe stops crashing.

SeaTac schrieb am 06.03.2018 um 05:24 Uhr

I have been using Movie Studio Platinum 13 and upgraded to V15. My question is what are the ungroup/regroup commands now.

Thank you.

vkmast schrieb am 06.03.2018 um 08:13 Uhr

I have been using Movie Studio Platinum 13 and upgraded to V15. My question is what are the ungroup/regroup commands now.

MSP 15

MSP 13 Advanced Edit Mode

Markk655 schrieb am 07.03.2018 um 04:49 Uhr

So, I have reset Windows back to before installing VMS 15. However, VMS 14 is still broken. :(

Uninstalling older BCC 8 effects didn't solve the issue. I uninstalled and reinstalled VMS 14 after cleaning the registry with CCleaner. It still crashed after starting. It did give me an error pertaining to Boris though... "Could not load library: Continuum_Common_OFX.dll. Please update your graphics card driver and then fully uninstall and reinstall BCC..."

So, I uninstalled all of the BCC apps that I had. VMS 14 still crashed. No luck there! I tried to reinstall VMS15, but still received the same error. So, I then moved the BCC OFX out of the C:\Program Files\Common Files\OFX\Plugins. That was enough to bypass the error. I have not yet tried to reinstall any of the new BCC OFX again since it now looks like I have VMS14 and V15 to work with.

Thanks @robbif2... the new BCC did make a mess of this!

Malix82 schrieb am 07.03.2018 um 18:16 Uhr

Chiming in on VMS15

My rig: Win10 Pro 64bit (all upgrades installed), i7-2600k, 32GB ram, 2x GTX980 (391.01 drivers), 144Hz G-Sync screen

  • GPU accelerated video prosessing - Just doesn't work, at all. I can select between 2 gpu's and Off in the settings, both gpu's produce flickering image (image partially/entirely black, every other frame is black). The preview only seems to display anything except black when I continuously resize the preview-window size.
    • "Off" works, but it's hardly desireable
    • Results are the same with and without SLI, single/two displays, displays set to 60, 120, 144 Hz, any combination of these settings
      • only thing I did not try was to remove the second gpu from the computer
        • Removing hardware is not desireable ;)
  • MAGIX AVC/AAC -preset editing: framerate resets to "23,976 (IVTC Film)", if I even touch the setting. How to produce: 1. click the framerate selector, 2. click any other input.
    • screencast of this happening
  • Clicking any video file in explorer tab OR loading project a seems to cause VMS15 to read the (associated) video files in their entirety. For small files (~few GB) this isn't an issue, unless there are many of them, but some of my files videofiles are in range of 200-500 GB, even with RAID0 this takes literally ages. (assuming a generous 300MB/s for my raid, reading a 500GB file would take about 27 minutes, give or take. Opening a ~12GB file took around around 30-40 seconds, ish)
    • https://i.imgur.com/SuA6kc7.png - screenshot of this, few minutes after clicking the video ~250GB videofile under the one highlighted in blue. Constant 280-300MB/s disk read.
    • During this file reading, the whole application is not responding. Only options are to patiently wait until the reading is done, or forcibly terminate the application.
    • EDIT: Seems to be mostly related to .avi files (Magic YUV 4:2:0 videocodec, pcm audio x2). EDIT2: Nope, happens with mp4 (h264,aac audio) files too
    • VMS14 doesn't behave like this.

Things that work:

  • NVenc video encoding. :)
Philip schrieb am 08.03.2018 um 05:13 Uhr

With apologies if this is too far afield or misplaced in the forum:

I have MS Plat 15 now (up from 12) but have barely looked at it; my question revolves around conversion and rendering. Perhaps someone can help with some guidance.

Where I work, WebEx is used for webinars, which the host/instructor can record. I have just done several and had the following problems: In order to post on the company training site, a recorded webinar has to be downloaded and then converted from the proprietary .arf file to .mp4 in the WebEx player/editor. After the first class, I needed to do some editing that was beyond the ultra-simple WebEx editor, so I made an mp4 and edited at home in MS 12. It looked OK while editing, but the rendered file (I tried Internet 480 first) was miserably low res, and I ended up having to render in Internet 720 to get anything half-decent resolution-wise for viewing on an office desktop monitor, and the file may be too large for the training site to use.

I made mp4s of the second two classes, to which the training site person added a header in an application called Camtasia. The resolution was similarly lousy; she re-rendered a bit higher and locked in a moderate max window size, which improved things, but the small details (of my MS Word shortcuts demo) were then too small to see clearly, due both to size and still insufficient resolution.

I'm interested to find out what the practicable limits of this arf to mp4 to edit to rendered file process are. I don't yet know if the training site will accept/play HEVC files; I expect it's not up to date. How can I go about my investigation most efficiently? What specific parameters do I need to know and keep track of in the process (bitrates, rendering resolution, and so on)? Do I really need a 44Hz 128 file just for decent speech? I have been under the impression that I can lower than considerably for simple speech. One tech person I emailed told me I need to render audio with a G.723 codec, but this appears in my searches to be obscure and yet another complication.

I do know enough to realize that the number of variables involved in all this obviates a simple answer. If some pointers to the above indicated questions can be offered, I would be most grateful.

Thanks!

NickHope schrieb am 08.03.2018 um 06:58 Uhr

After installing VMS 15 Suite (with Platinum build 102) it repeatedly would not start. I was getting "Unmanaged Exception (0xc0000005)" errors. Unfortunately I no longer have the full text.

I moved my OFX plugins out of C:\Program Files\Common Files\OFX\Plugins\ and it would start. I then gradually replaced them and narrowed it down to the NewBlueFX Titler Pro 1 plugin that was bundled with Vegas Pro 12. This plugin causes Vegas Pro 14 & 15 to crash if it is clicked, but it does not prevent them starting.

Then, strangely, when I later restored that plugin to double-check my conclusion, VMS15 was able to start, and the plugin opens in demo mode, as it does in VP13. No idea why that would be, but I wish my VP14 & 15 would also do that.

Vegas products need better handling of failures due to plugins.

Marco. schrieb am 08.03.2018 um 11:31 Uhr

Philip, I think there are two settings to consider: video bit rate and frame size. Encrease the video bit rate and if possible to not change the frame size of your source video for rendering.

valentin-t schrieb am 08.03.2018 um 12:37 Uhr

Dear friends, I bougt today the upgrade studio platinum 15 from my "old" platinum 14 I installed all the features and introduced the pass but the program crashed on launching. "MSP has stopped working" Do you know why?

NickHope schrieb am 08.03.2018 um 13:51 Uhr

After installing VMS15 Suite, I did some testing of backwards/forwards compatibility of the various 3rd-party plugins I've received in Vegas bundles over the past few versions, plus some freebies from the same providers. Over time, version-locking makes a right old mess! I got so confused that I ended up making a chart. "Yes" means a plugin works.

Edit: Revised the chart because I was wrong about VSTs not being supported in VMSP.

Dr Zen schrieb am 08.03.2018 um 15:08 Uhr

After installing VMS15 Suite, I did some testing of backwards/forwards compatibility of the various 3rd-party plugins I've received in Vegas bundles over the past few versions, plus some freebies from the same providers. Over time, version-locking makes a right old mess! I got so confused that I ended up making a chart. "Yes" means a plugin works.

Great work Nick 😉

I can add another problem related to this, although it probably is not going to affect the average user.
I have Vegas Pro 15 with Boris Continuum 3D Objects (v10) Unit installed.
I also have Vegas Movie Studio 15 Platinum and Boris Continuum Film Style Unit (v11) installed.
Installing both of these Units causes a complete cluster f^%* - I wasted an entire day dealing with this.
If anyone has 3D Objects Unit installed, do not install Film Style Units, otherwise your 3D Objects will either disappear completely in all versions of Vegas or become de-registered and be unable to re-register. It also causes Film Style Units to become impossible to register and use! 3D Objects v10 also disappears from the Programs & Features list, even though it is still installed.

I have contacted Boris Support and asked for them to comment about this problem.
I suspect you will have to choose which Boris Unit you want to use, but will not be able to have both installed on the same computer.

On top of that, I had Boris Continuum Units v8 from Movie Studio Platinum 13 installed - this caused Vegas Movie Studio 15 Platinum to get stuck at the Creating Windows stage. Trying to un-install all remains of this was a bloody nightmare. Eventually I did a deep removal of all Boris plugins from various Program files and the Windows Registry.

For anyone who would like to know which BorisFX files I did a deep removal on, here is my list of locations.
First un-install all BorisFX from Programs & Features, then delete the following:

C:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc
C:\Program Files\Common Files\OFX\Plugins
C:\Program Files\Sony\Movie Studio Platinum 13.0\OFX Video Plug-Ins\BCC8_3DObjects.ofx.bundle
C:\Program Files\Sony\Movie Studio Platinum 13.0\OFX Video Plug-Ins\BCC8_OFX.ofx.bundle
C:\ProgramData\BorisFX\ContinuumOFX
C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\BorisFX
C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Movie Studio Platinum\15.0
C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Roaming\BorisFX

RegEdit
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Boris FX, Inc.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\BorisFX
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Boris FX, Inc.

Regards
Derek

 

Reyfox schrieb am 08.03.2018 um 15:25 Uhr

Nick Hope, thanks for that really awesome chart! Wow! I did want BCC Film Style Unit for VP14 and VP15 (well, VP15 has it's own problems now), but the cost was too much ($299 from Boris) vs the cost of VMS15, $139 if it works.

After reading though Dr Zen's reply, not too sure now. .....did you reinstall the plugins?

Zuletzt geändert von Reyfox am 08.03.2018, 16:06, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.

Newbie😁

Win 10 Pro

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12core 24 thread

32GB DDR4 3200

MSI Gaming X RX480 8GB

Gigabyte X570 Elite Motherboard

3POINT schrieb am 08.03.2018 um 16:19 Uhr

Great chart, Nick. I uninstalled everything from Newblue to get VMS15 up and running. One comment to your chart concerning Prodad's Mercalli 4 that was bundled with Vpro14, I got it also working with VMS14 and VMS15!!!