Thanks @fifonik thats exactly what im seeing. Even with a constant bitrate the output is as if its a low bitrate. Did you just end up sticking with the Sony AVC?

The speed is fine for a client approval quick render but im not happy with the artifacts for final delivery. It's just sloppy.

I'm using SonyAVC for drafts and for final render using x264 through frameserver (Happy Otter Scripts might be also handy)

I have to look real hard at the second pic to see the tatoo is slightly sharper.

I used Magix AVC for the first time in my current project, exported a YT test version at 12mb/s that did look good here but looked pixellated and weird at times once on YT. I usually export at a minimumn of 16mb/s though. I've not seen this happen before on YT with the Sony AVC. What is your source material?

Igonore the sharpness. That's due to something else. It's mainly pixelation in the darks.

Source is canon c100 MK1 shot using wide DR. All fine using Sony. Just not up to snuff with magix

The main thing is it's noticeable while playing. It's most likely the screen flickers as the noise moves around.

highest quality is in my opinion misleading in the codec MAGIX AVC.

I use in the Preset 'High Quality' and in the RC Mode just VBR. 10mbit/s avg and 30 max. and if you are in the 8-18 mbit range stay in the Main Profile.
But i havent done comparisons since VP14 between Sony AVC and Mainconcept/Magic AVC. So cant tell if there is a difference. I see clearly differences in your sample pictures. But its hard to say if any setting is messing up and give you noticable more artifacts like you have now.

Probably in the Codec Settings under 'Project' there is Sony AVC setted as 'as Project' and in Magix 'Preview' or viceversa?

Unfortunally the Codecs give you not much controll over them to avoid artifacts, like how many I Frames you want etc.

Hard to tell what you could do, if anything can be improved anyway from our side as consumers...

If Time/Money is not the biggest issue, i suggest you take a look at http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tvmw6.html gives you plenty of options to make files and sizes of your desires.

If you are not afraid of using some commands try https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=127611 it also takes time in the encoding but most likely the best results you can get. Quiet similar is of course Handbrake https://handbrake.fr/ no wonder, it uses the same x264.

In any "workarounds" you of course need to output first in a lossless codec. https://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html or https://www.edius.de/hqx.html

Or try everything with Happy Otter Script and over the Framework, should you also give a decent workaround. Anyway, hard to tell how to "fix" that.

Thanks @eikira. Same project settings. all set to best. Ive spent 2 days rendeing using the Magix AVC and Magix HEVC with all combinations of profile and quality.

I too found that changing RC mode had zero effect on quality. Put the outputted files back into vegas, stacked tyhem and flicked from one to the other (while on full screen best on a 50inch TV and could not see any difference in quality. Render times were affected though.

This is pure intellectual fodder to me since I rarely use either codec anymore. In Vegas 15, I ran samples of each render template which I tried to match as closely as possible with the settings exposed in each. Since I rendered at the Sony AVC maximum bit rate (25,999,360 bps), I set the Magix render template target to 26 Mbps. The Sony render produced a peak bit rate of 29 Mbps, I set the Magix limit to 29 Mbps.

Magix Render Settings

Sony Render Settings

I analyzed each rendered file using Wayne Waag's Render Quality measurement tools with the following results.

Date: 2019/04/08  08:13:19 
Description: Vegas Pro 15 Magix AVC Internet  at 26 Mbps
Frames Processed: 914
Processing Speed: 2.87 fps
Mean Squared Error: 5.805 (Lower is better)
Peak Signal to Noise Ratio: 47.749 (Higher is better)

Date: 2019/04/08  08:18:52 
Description: Vegas 15 Sony AVC Internet 26 Mbps
Frames Processed: 914
Processing Speed: 3.26 fps
Mean Squared Error: 8.879 (Lower is better)
Peak Signal to Noise Ratio: 44.645 (Higher is better)

I'm unlikely to comment further on this subject except to say that science is a wonderful thing and it has contributed to many of the advances that have improved the plight of mankind.

Thanks JD, I had intended doing likewise, but for some unknown reason I’m not having any luck with the util, all of my mse values are very high, can’t figure whats wrong, even testing the old files that were ok and now wonky results? Fixed with a vlc and Nvidia driver remove and reinstall.

@mintyslippers

I think your statement has some validity . I have always thought the MainConcepts rendering , while good , was always a little "Dry" looking , compared to the Sony h.264( sounds like a esoteric audio equipment review ) . The best render to go to the Tube ( AFAIK ) is , Vegas menu : Tools-->burn-disk-->burn Blu-ray disk . Going there will open the Mastering dialogue . Choose burn to disk . choose Sony AVC\MVC choose one of the 16 Mbps options . Choose Sony w64 audio , 24 bit PCM ( 5.1 PCM will appear if the project is set to 5.1 ) . Also set project to 24 bit 96 khz or maybe even 24 bit 192 khz .Why ? All of this will give extra data to the audio so when youTube renderer gets a hold of it , there will be more data to work with . Your youTube audio will be extra good . Especially if the audio has been manipulated : stretched or has audio synthesizers . Using Mastering dialogue as said above will retain your local audio quality when on the Tube . ( for compressed audio needs , Never use .mp3 , use FLAC instead )

@john_dennis

Specs . all I can say is : the best sounding audio equipment doesn't always have the best specs . I think the same is true for video .

When we moved to vp12 we tested the Sony avc Vs Mainconcept and found the Sony one to be superior, but slower. Mainconcept looks pretty much like what we are getting now. So I'm guessing that could be what the magix one is based on.

So I'm guessing that could be what the magix one is based on.

There is no need for guessing at all. Either you use CPU based in the MAGIX AVC presets, and you will clearly see it is the MainConcept Version or use NVEnc which is Nvidias built in Codec. Actually the quality of the NVEnc and MainConcept one cant be the same. And is MainConcept really faster as the Sony AVC, basically they have the same stuff as an Codec to work with it. But Magix AVC NON GPU is the MainConcept one.

Right, spent the past 2 days rendeing out a little sequence with EVERY possible combination of settings for both the Magix AVC and Magic HEVC and I conclude that the 'Preset' is broken and doesnt actually do what its supposed to. I think the devs need to take another look and see if it truly is asking the codec to do what it says it should. The best quality was with the Magix HEVC with the settings below (saved as a Vimeo preset).

Why use the default preset and not high quality? Well in my tests high quality actually produced LOWER quality output and using the VBR or VBR high quality. RC mode made no difference to the footage. I just leave it on VBR High quality in a hope it may do a little better.

Also, NVENC is producing WAY better quality on my RTX 2060 over mainconcept when the general idea that CPU encoding is better says it shouldnt. Infact the Mainconcept codec is just downright dirty.

Below is 2 shots from my 8bit Canon C100 footage that was rendered out using the Magix encoders. The C100 8bit footage naturally produces a rather appealing grain in the noise which is turned into pure blocks with mainconcept and somewhat maintained with NVENC.

The images have had their levels tweaked to show the block artifacts easier. One is Mainconcept and the other is the NVENC encoder. Both VBR, Max bitrate 24mbps, average 18mbps. Doesnt matter how high I go the results are the same. Went upto 50 and it was the same. The problem with NVENC is every now and then the image will render just like the mainconcept one, with no motion in the image and it looks almost like a flash to the user. None of this is present with the Sony AVC codec. That is consistent throughout, but slower.

SonyAVC produces more blurry picture. You can see this in my tests (download VegasMainconceptBug2.zip from the thread I mentioned and check provided Blur metric if you like).

Also, SonyAVC's bitrate is limited and not acceptable in some cases (for me at least).

P.S. I did extended comparison for QSV, NVENC & VCE as well (have not posted results as not many people here are interested in quality, they are mostly after speed). I've also found that NVENC produces the best quality (better than CPU, but worse than VP11 Mainconcept). However, I'm on AMD and NVENC's quality anyway not as good as x264.

P.P.S. I reported it years ago to Sony. Then 1 year ago to Magix. I would be very surprised if they rush and fix it now after your posts? :)

Above 12 Mb/s HD or 40 Mb/s 4k 8-bit, the differences "should" be indistinguishable. Below that, x264 is the clear winner.

@john_dennis

extra comment on your S\N measurements of Magix codec verses Sony AVC\MVC . you may have had Dolby noise reduction on cassette tape . As I recall , When Dolby NR was ON , the noise floor did decrease , but also the high frequency energy diminished . Dolby NR specs looked better , but the final result was reduced audio quality .

That might be why I said : Magix codec , video looks "dry" , cause high frequency energy in the video has been reduced ( in an attempted to increase S\N of the video ) ?. The Spec you show has a higher S/N ratio with Magix codec. However , like with or without Dolby NR. I always liked the audio better with Dolby NR OFF . Here too , Sony AVC\MVC looks better to me , despite the hard Specs .

Please comment . Is this just like audio equipment reviewing ?

"Here too , Sony AVC\MVC looks better to me , despite the hard Specs ."

Both render methods are available in Vegas Pro. Use the one that adds joy to your life.

HEVC (h.265) is the only one that YouTube doesn't compress to mush.
It's slow to render 4 to 5 times longer than h.264.
The HEVC intel (QSV) version in Vegas 16 is a little faster than HEVC in Vegas 15.