17: hardware acceleration

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 8/6/2019, 12:49 PM

"Magix has relied more on the Windows 10 GPU "HDR" display mode, which is inferior"

There's nothing inferior about taking that route. Windows HDR is the exact same quality as HDR through any hardware output card.

"Magix! Vegas 17 in its current state cannot be used for any serious work at all."

I just used 17 to complete a 2.5 hour long 4 camera 4k project for a high paying client, and it sailed through it far smoother than Vegas 16 ever would have (or any previous version for that matter, not a single crash that wasn't caused by a third party plugin), rendered it faster, it was colored far better, and the client loved the results... so I'd beg to differ.

megabit wrote on 8/6/2019, 1:27 PM

@fr0sty, my Friend - the funny part is that the only projects I actually sold to people on BDs and DVDs) have also been multi-camera, classical music performances of some world-class musicians I edited, graded and authored using Vegas Pro software :) In Resolve I only did some features and shorts I did in most part for free (but then, video/film shooting and editing is just my serious hobby, or second profession)..

So when I'm saying now that - if I were to continue such M-C projects in "out-of-the-window" look (meaning UHD resolution and 50 fps) - unfortunately, I couldn't do it in Vegas Pro in its current state. Of course, I could use proxies etc. - but what's the point if Resolve cuts through like it was butter? Unfortunately, multi-camera editing is still much better in Vegas - and that's why I'm disappointed when every new release still has playback acceleration problems. And I don't need to explain to you how important the absolutely smooth playback is when you must keep all 6-10 in perfect A/V sync...

Piotr

Last changed by megabit on 8/6/2019, 2:50 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933  | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)

megabit wrote on 8/7/2019, 3:28 AM

Also, you wrote: "There's nothing inferior about taking that route. Windows HDR is the exact same quality as HDR through any hardware output card."

Oh yes, there is - GPU's colors are Windows - dependent and as such, they may only happen to be accurate, while dedicated I/O device like one of those from BMD are OS-agnostic, colorwise. Lots of discussions on this very topic on the BMD's Resolve user forum...

Last changed by megabit on 8/7/2019, 3:29 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933  | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)

fr0sty wrote on 8/7/2019, 4:19 PM

If you know how to set up your GPU in windows, and don't make any changes to the color settings, I don't see that being an issue. If you've got info that contradicts that, I'd be happy to read up on it.

Kinvermark wrote on 8/7/2019, 4:34 PM

Yes, there is lots of discussion on the Resolve forum, but the most compelling arguments are for frosty's position. I have a BM decklink card, but I cannot see any difference between its output and that of Vegas through Windows GPU. (I think older Mac's are more problematic in this way due to some weird gamma settings.)

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/14/2019, 10:22 AM

Um, regarding outputs, with Vegas, is 10 bit output possible at all without using a "pro" type graphics, be it AMD or NVIDIA? Can't imagine 8 bit HDR looking good for that matter.

Marco. wrote on 8/14/2019, 10:46 AM

Totally independent from your graphic device 10 bit output is possible for X-AVC, several flavors of AVI, HDCAM SR, images sequences (up to 16 bit and even float point). Not sure about ProRes in VP17.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 8/15/2019, 7:18 AM

My point was that two GPUs in a system are not used really by Vegas. What is a difference to Resolve.

Hopefully the work will improve the playback by AVC-I too (what, by the way, is an acquisition format used by the FS7 for example).

fr0sty wrote on 8/15/2019, 10:44 AM

Um, regarding outputs, with Vegas, is 10 bit output possible at all without using a "pro" type graphics, be it AMD or NVIDIA? Can't imagine 8 bit HDR looking good for that matter.

Magix Intermediate now supports 10 bit as well.

However, this question seems to be referencing 10 bit preview, in which case, yes, Vegas is the only NLE I know of that supports 10 bit HDR previews out of any HDMI 2.0 HDR capable GPU, not just the pro models. You must make sure windows is in HDR/deep color mode on that monitor.

 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 8/15/2019, 10:54 AM

if I could suggest anything at the moment would be adding ability of I/O devices like Decklink to send the HDR10 trigger to the UHD TV whenever the project is set to HDR10 in its properties; I guess Magix has relied more on the Windows 10 GPU "HDR" display mode, which is inferior - plus, when using a proper I/O card, there is currently no way to tell the HDR-capable TV to switch into its HDR10 mode (not speaking about HLG as my Samsung doesn't support it, anyway).

Regards

Piotr

That is not to 100% correct. I use the Decklink 4K Extreme 12G too. I have combined that with a Sumo - that can be switched both to PQ and HLG manually. And if you would use a Sony HDR-TV - well most Sonys can be set to HDR manually too.

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/15/2019, 3:29 PM

Um, regarding outputs, with Vegas, is 10 bit output possible at all without using a "pro" type graphics, be it AMD or NVIDIA? Can't imagine 8 bit HDR looking good for that matter.

Magix Intermediate now supports 10 bit as well.

However, this question seems to be referencing 10 bit preview, in which case, yes, Vegas is the only NLE I know of that supports 10 bit HDR previews out of any HDMI 2.0 HDR capable GPU, not just the pro models. You must make sure windows is in HDR/deep color mode on that monitor.

 

Thank you, fr0sty!

Yes, that's what I had in mind.

AVsupport wrote on 8/15/2019, 5:51 PM

I can report that using VP17 with nVidia 1060 GPU has made a massive difference in timeline playback speed for me, using XAVCS 4K on a 1080 8-bit timeline, GPU decode enabled [check if your default IO is Intel] , Intel iGPU disabled, dynamic RAM disabled, latest nVidia Creator drivers. I drive 2 monitors of this, 4K main/edit and FHD external preview.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Dinu-Madau wrote on 8/17/2019, 10:12 AM

Will this get added to Vegas Movie Studio? The software is unusable without AMD GPU acceleration.

vkmast wrote on 8/17/2019, 10:35 AM

@Dinu-Madau please repost your question in your own thread on the relevant Vegas Movie Studio forum. Thank you.

joost-berk wrote on 9/10/2019, 3:54 PM

On this moment only Decklink 8K pro supports HDR10 color space. This is stated on their website. Today I was testing with my Decklink SDI 4K and it seems that I am only capable of playing back Rec709. So there is no proper way to view HDR on SDI whitout investing in a new setup. Even with ACES in Rec.709 it doesn't give me the right color representation of my time line. Although it will play properly in the preview window.

Also I tried grading in HDR on my LG and Sony HDR10 displays directly with HDMI on the GTX1080, but Windows says that my display's aren't capable of "Streaming HDR video", but are only capable of running "HDR Gaming or Apps". Which is confusing for me.

Does anyone has a solution so that I can use my HDR displays with Vegas as it should?

Vegas Pro user since version 1.2

OS: Windows 10 Pro 1809

CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X

RAM: 32GB

GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 8GB GDDR

Monitoring: Black Magic Design DeckLink SDI 4K

Audio: M-Audio M-Track Eight ASIO

Controller: Behringer X-Touch

fr0sty wrote on 9/10/2019, 4:32 PM

Are you using the studio drivers?

joost-berk wrote on 9/11/2019, 2:28 AM

Are you using the studio drivers?

Yes sir, I am using the Studio Drivers from Nvidia. They are up to date as wel.

Vegas Pro user since version 1.2

OS: Windows 10 Pro 1809

CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X

RAM: 32GB

GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 8GB GDDR

Monitoring: Black Magic Design DeckLink SDI 4K

Audio: M-Audio M-Track Eight ASIO

Controller: Behringer X-Touch

fr0sty wrote on 9/11/2019, 10:06 AM

It worked on my old 970 GTX, so your 1080 should do just fine with it. All you have to do is right click your desktop, go to display properties, select the display that is your external display, enable HDR/deep color mode on that display (it will only be available to check on displays that support HDR), and then put Vegas into HDR mode in project settings. From there, of course, you need to add 10 bit media, preferably shot in the rec2020 color space, to the project. Only works in Vegas 16+ and only in Windows 10.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/11/2019, 11:50 AM

On this moment only Decklink 8K pro supports HDR10 color space. This is stated on their website. Today I was testing with my Decklink SDI 4K and it seems that I am only capable of playing back Rec709. So there is no proper way to view HDR on SDI whitout investing in a new setup. Even with ACES in Rec.709 it doesn't give me the right color representation of my time line. Although it will play properly in the preview window.

I am not sure if metadata, that switch the monitor to HD, are transfered by SDI. The card should show rec2020, but I assume that you must be able to switch your SDI monitor to rec2020 manually. At least with my Decklink 4K Extreme 12G and my Sumo it works in that way.

joseph-desaavedra wrote on 9/11/2019, 1:14 PM

"NEW: GPU accelerated decoding for AVC/HEVC"

s - but this is in 32-bit ACES projects, plus the picture is clean at least...

Shame on you, Magix! Vegas 17 in its current state cannot be used for any serious work at all.

well I agree on that , in its current state is is NOT usable forcing me into resolve. Won't get into all the minutia of avc/hevc coding, it just is a 299.00 crash generator. Magix! give us the release version will ya! and tech support try responding to your paying customers it good buisness. If it is Broken just say "its broken" and "we are working on it". I Trouble shot it from here to Kingdom come, got no where... put an old gtx970 and it ran fine. no crashing.. explain that.

Last changed by joseph-desaavedra on 9/11/2019, 1:15 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X 16-Core Processor
Threading
1 CPU - 16 Core - 32 Threads
Frequency
3466.73 MHz (34.75 * 99.76 MHz) - Uncore: 1596.2 MHz
Multiplier
Current: 34.75
Architecture
Threadripper / Stepping: ZP-B1 / Technology: 14 nm
CPUID / Ext.
F.1.1 / 17.1
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MMX(+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, SSE4A, x86-64, AMD-V, AES, AVX, AVX2, FMA3, SHA
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Rev. 0x8001137
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Temperature
63.5 °C / 146 °F
Type
Retail
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#00: 3466.73 MHz #01: 3491.67 MHz #02: 3466.73 MHz #03: 3466.73 MHz
#04: 3491.67 MHz #05: 3491.67 MHz #06: 3466.73 MHz #07: 3466.73 MHz
#08: 3491.67 MHz #09: 3441.79 MHz #10: 3491.67 MHz #11: 3466.73 MHz
#12: 3466.73 MHz #13: 3491.67 MHz #14: 3466.73 MHz #15: 3466.73 MHz
Motherboard
Model
Gigabyte X399 AORUS XTREME-CF
Socket
Socket SP3r2 (4094)
North Bridge
AMD Ryzen SOC rev 00
South Bridge
AMD X399 rev 51
BIOS
American Megatrends Inc. F5i (05/08/2019)
AMD AGESA
SummitPI-SP3r2-1.1.0.2
Memory (RAM)
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32768 MB
Type
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Frequency
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16-18-18-38-56-1 (tCAS-tRC-tRP-tRAS-tCS-tCR)
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G.Skill 8192 MB (DDR4-2137) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: F4-3200C16-8GTZR
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G.Skill 8192 MB (DDR4-2137) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: F4-3200C16-8GTZR
Slot #3 Module
G.Skill 8192 MB (DDR4-2137) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: F4-3200C16-8GTZR
Slot #4 Module
G.Skill 8192 MB (DDR4-2137) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: F4-3200C16-8GTZR
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GPU Type
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti (TU102-300) @ 300 MHz
GPU Brand
EVGA Corp.
GPU Specs
TU102-300 / Process: 12nm / Transistors: 18600M / Die Size: 754 mm² / TDP: 260W
GPU Units
Shader Units: 4352 / Texture Units (TMU): 272 / Render Units (ROP): 88
GPU VRAM
11264 MB GDDR6 352 bit @ 405 MHz (Samsung)
GPU APIs
DirectX 12.0 (12_1) / OpenGL 4.5 / OpenCL 1.2 / Vulkan 1.0
Storage (HDD/SSD)
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Seagate ST8000VN0022-2EL112 (FW: SC61)
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Fixed - Bus: SATA (11)
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Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB
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Fixed, SSD - Bus: NVMe (17)
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953.9 GiB (~1020 GB)
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Fixed, SSD - Bus: NVMe (17)
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Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB
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476.9 GiB (~510 GB)
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Fixed, SSD - Bus: NVMe (17)
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Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB
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476.9 GiB (~510 GB)
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Fixed, SSD - Bus: NVMe (17)
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Screen #1
Dell Computer DELL P4317Q (DELD084)
Screen #1 Spec
42.5 inches (108 cm) / 3840 x 2160 pixels @ 23-80 Hz
Miscellaneous
Windows Version
Microsoft Windows 10 (10.0) Professional 64-bit
Windows Subver.
Build 18362
CPU-Z Version
1.90.0 (64 bit)

fr0sty wrote on 9/11/2019, 4:08 PM

"explain that."

Means it was a problem with your GPU or your GPU driver causing the issue.

I film many of the world's biggest music festivals and concerts, and use Vegas to edit it all, so I'm not trying to hear any "can't be used for serious work" comments. It's got a few minor bugs that everyone experiences, but by far it is the most stable release they've put out in a long time.

joseph-desaavedra wrote on 9/11/2019, 4:31 PM

I have tried both 1660 TI and 20180 TI, both cards are defective the same way or uses technology that VP not compatible with yet. I threw a GTX970 in it like the one in your system I had in a box from my wife's gaming rig upgrade a few years ago and the crashing stopped. Your running an older card, from your perspective it is stable. But from my perspective it is not.

 CPU Name
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X 16-Core Processor
Threading
1 CPU - 16 Core - 32 Threads
Frequency
3466.73 MHz (34.75 * 99.76 MHz) - Uncore: 1596.2 MHz
Multiplier
Current: 34.75
Architecture
Threadripper / Stepping: ZP-B1 / Technology: 14 nm
CPUID / Ext.
F.1.1 / 17.1
IA Extensions
MMX(+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, SSE4A, x86-64, AMD-V, AES, AVX, AVX2, FMA3, SHA
Caches
L1D : 32 KB / L2 : 512 KB / L3 : 8192 KB
Caches Assoc.
L1D : 8-way / L2 : 8-way / L3 : 16-way
Microcode
Rev. 0x8001137
TDP / Vcore
180 Watts / 1.212 Volts
Temperature
63.5 °C / 146 °F
Type
Retail
Cores Frequencies
#00: 3466.73 MHz #01: 3491.67 MHz #02: 3466.73 MHz #03: 3466.73 MHz
#04: 3491.67 MHz #05: 3491.67 MHz #06: 3466.73 MHz #07: 3466.73 MHz
#08: 3491.67 MHz #09: 3441.79 MHz #10: 3491.67 MHz #11: 3466.73 MHz
#12: 3466.73 MHz #13: 3491.67 MHz #14: 3466.73 MHz #15: 3466.73 MHz
Motherboard
Model
Gigabyte X399 AORUS XTREME-CF
Socket
Socket SP3r2 (4094)
North Bridge
AMD Ryzen SOC rev 00
South Bridge
AMD X399 rev 51
BIOS
American Megatrends Inc. F5i (05/08/2019)
AMD AGESA
SummitPI-SP3r2-1.1.0.2
Memory (RAM)
Total Size
32768 MB
Type
Quad Channel (256 bit) DDR4-SDRAM
Frequency
1596.2 MHz (DDR4-3192) - Ratio 1:16
Timings
16-18-18-38-56-1 (tCAS-tRC-tRP-tRAS-tCS-tCR)
Slot #1 Module
G.Skill 8192 MB (DDR4-2137) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: F4-3200C16-8GTZR
Slot #2 Module
G.Skill 8192 MB (DDR4-2137) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: F4-3200C16-8GTZR
Slot #3 Module
G.Skill 8192 MB (DDR4-2137) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: F4-3200C16-8GTZR
Slot #4 Module
G.Skill 8192 MB (DDR4-2137) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: F4-3200C16-8GTZR
Graphic Card (GPU)
GPU Type
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti (TU102-300) @ 300 MHz
GPU Brand
EVGA Corp.
GPU Specs
TU102-300 / Process: 12nm / Transistors: 18600M / Die Size: 754 mm² / TDP: 260W
GPU Units
Shader Units: 4352 / Texture Units (TMU): 272 / Render Units (ROP): 88
GPU VRAM
11264 MB GDDR6 352 bit @ 405 MHz (Samsung)
GPU APIs
DirectX 12.0 (12_1) / OpenGL 4.5 / OpenCL 1.2 / Vulkan 1.0
Storage (HDD/SSD)
Model #1 Name
Seagate ST8000VN0022-2EL112 (FW: SC61)
Model #1 Capacity
7452.0 GiB (~8010 GB)
Model #1 Type
Fixed - Bus: SATA (11)
Model #2 Name
Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB
Model #2 Capacity
476.9 GiB (~510 GB)
Model #2 Type
Fixed, SSD - Bus: NVMe (17)
Model #3 Name
Samsung SSD 960 PRO 1TB
Model #3 Capacity
953.9 GiB (~1020 GB)
Model #3 Type
Fixed, SSD - Bus: NVMe (17)
Model #4 Name
Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB
Model #4 Capacity
476.9 GiB (~510 GB)
Model #4 Type
Fixed, SSD - Bus: NVMe (17)
Model #5 Name
Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB
Model #5 Capacity
476.9 GiB (~510 GB)
Model #5 Type
Fixed, SSD - Bus: NVMe (17)
Display
Screen #1
Dell Computer DELL P4317Q (DELD084)
Screen #1 Spec
42.5 inches (108 cm) / 3840 x 2160 pixels @ 23-80 Hz
Miscellaneous
Windows Version
Microsoft Windows 10 (10.0) Professional 64-bit
Windows Subver.
Build 18362
CPU-Z Version
1.90.0 (64 bit)

fr0sty wrote on 9/11/2019, 6:50 PM

I'm running a Radeon 7, flawlessly. Go look at the benchmark thread. there's lots of users on here successfully using the RTX 20 series cards in Vegas 17 as well. As popular as those cards are, this forum would be filled with threads about Vegas 17 not working from people using those cards if it were a problem that affected them all universally.

AlesCZ wrote on 9/12/2019, 2:51 PM

I don't want to start a new topic, just to point out that I can't use H.265 footages in Vegas 17. In Vegas 16, H.265 works normally, but in Vegas 17 it's very, but very stuck/laggy.
I have to be careful not to set the camera to H.265 :)