75+ PiP (or Similar) for Virtual Choir?

Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/26/2020, 2:16 PM

I'm putting ~75 videos, each of somebody singing the same song, into a project. So far, I have just been manually using the Picture-in-Picture effect for each video. But the videos are all different sizes and shapes, and it looks pretty messy.

Is there a way to do something like in this video - ? And not only am I hoping to to get consistent, same-size grid squares, but I would like to be able to pan and zoom into and across the entire grid like in the example video. Right now I know how to do that for an individual video track, but not for the entire project. Is there a way to do that? BTW I'm using Vegas Pro 16.

Thanks!

Comments

walter-i. wrote on 11/26/2020, 2:35 PM

@Ken-Theriot
A lot has been discussed about it here in the forum - use the search function.
If I remember correctly, there were problems with panning over the entire grid.

Edit:
One Example: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/making-a-video-from-a-choir--120370/?page=1

Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/26/2020, 2:42 PM

Thanks. Since this is a pretty atypical thing, I didn't know what to search for :-P. I guess "virtual choir." I'll try that.

Vegas Pro seems to have a lot in common with Reaper for audio recording (lots of the keyboard shortcuts and mouse-wheel commands are the same). As with most DAWs, there is a Master Track where you can apply effects to the entire project. I thought Vegas Pro might have something similar.

I suppose I could render the full video out as a static grid (once I figure out how to make the boxes the same size and arranged evenly). Then bring in that single video to a new Project and then use keyframes to zoom and pan around it?

Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/26/2020, 3:06 PM

I did a search and found one thread with 4 pages of someone doing the same thing. But there wan't much in the way of HOW to do what I'm asking. It mostly had to do with changing video sizes and Vegas crashing due to dozens of simultaneous videos, etc. I'm kind of surprised that as popular as this kind of thing has become in the past few years, there isn't a way to create a grid or align multiple tracks where the PiP effect has been applied, etc.

Musicvid wrote on 11/26/2020, 3:21 PM

Ken, you found the thread I was thinking of, and your question certainly is not atypical at present.

Since I have some interest in this, I've been having a lot of fun with DaviTools VideoWall, an older, free extension for Vegas. Use the forum Search box.

You can also record your Zoom events, but the quality is kind of crummy.

set wrote on 11/26/2020, 3:39 PM

Render each source to Magix Intermediate format to prevent the crash trouble.

I personally use checkerboard with less contrast color options, as the reference to grid placement, then use the Event Pan&Crop to mask and reposition the singers. I didn't use PiP effect.

As to moving around to entire grid effect, the best I can think within Vegas Pro scope only is nesting sequence method:

Preparing new project with large project size, do maximize resolution if needed up to 8000 pixel, then arrange the placement there.

Now put that large resolution project as nested sequence (import / drag-n-drop large VEG project file) to new 1080p project, then do Event Pan&Crop to zoom in.

 

The best and more creative option will be using VEGAS Effects as part of VEGAS Post to do the 'grid arrangement' and camera movement. However, the workflow can be bit 'quite complex' here, but this is what I can achieve:

*Project not yet finished

Last changed by set on 11/26/2020, 3:47 PM, changed a total of 6 times.

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Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/26/2020, 5:44 PM

Ken, you found the thread I was thinking of, and your question certainly is not atypical at present.

Since I have some interest in this, I've been having a lot of fun with DaviTools VideoWall, an older, free extension for Vegas. Use the forum Search box.

You can also record your Zoom events, but the quality is kind of crummy.

Thanks! I'll look into that. Regarding Zoom, that isn't part of the equation at all. These are 70 individual people who recorded themselves individually and submitted them into a Google Drive Folder (multiple formats and sizes), and not an attempt to sing at the same time on a Zoom session. That certainly would have made it easier to have the same size boxes.

michael-harrison wrote on 11/26/2020, 6:01 PM

@Ken-Theriot "that certainly would have made it easier"

nooooooooo. With random network delays, differing compression and audio artifacts you'd have just moved the problem and created several more.

Of course, if all the quality and resolution settings were different for every video in what you have, you've got some of that problem already.

hopefully you've got at least consistent quality *within* each video.

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Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/26/2020, 7:12 PM

The quality is good enough in the submitted videos. I just need to find the best way (instead of manually manipulating each PiP frame) to get a consistent size and placement.

set wrote on 11/26/2020, 9:19 PM

Just experiment for easier solution, you can try the following method for better grid sizes:

 

Make grids in image application, where each layer is each thumbnail grid mask:

Save each thumbnail grid mask as PNG:

Arrange each thumbnail PNG to each track, then put the video below each thumbnail mask PNG as a child track to the mask track:

Change the Compositing mode of mask PNG track layer as 'Multiply':

Now arrange the singer whether using P-in-P FX or Event Pan&Crop function to make it fit to each grid 'window':

 

Every thumbnail mask PNG here functions as a filter for better grid size, so the video source's sizes doesn't have to be super exact.

 

Last changed by set on 11/26/2020, 9:21 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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* I don't work for VEGAS Creative Software Team. I'm just Voluntary Moderator in this forum.

Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/26/2020, 10:15 PM

Dang Set. I have never used the features you're talking about - child tracks, etc. Also I'm not sure what you are referring to in saving a graphics file as a thumbnail grid mask. I think you've gone beyond my understanding of how to do things in Vegas :-P. I'll try to follow what you said tomorrow.

rraud wrote on 11/27/2020, 10:33 AM

Vegas Pro seems to have a lot in common with Reaper for audio recording (lots of the keyboard shortcuts and mouse-wheel commands are the same). As with most DAWs, there is a Master Track where you can apply effects to the entire project. I thought Vegas Pro might have something similar.by Vegas

Both have master and sub-master audio buses where plug-ins and chains can be added.
A lot of the audio commands and such are the same in VP as in Reaper. FYI, Reaper key developer, Justin Frankel (WinAmp) was inspired by Vegas Audio's intuitive UI.

Musicvid wrote on 11/27/2020, 11:28 AM

Justin Frankel (WinAmp) was inspired by Vegas Audio's intuitive UI.

Ha, I was just looking for the llama's place the other day because I needed to convert midi files to wav internally, and Winamp was the first thing that came to mind. Everything is archived, and there is a splash announcing a future relaunch. I still hear people talk about MilkDrop, which fascinated me. Anyway, it seems like an old friend on my desktop.

Musicvid wrote on 11/27/2020, 11:34 AM

@Ken-Theriot

While I am in awe of @set's mastery, the extension I mentioned, DaviTools VideoWall, is super simple to work with and create usable results quickly. It's like playing with kids' building blocks.

Reading your description, I certainly hope all of your participants were singing at the same metronome setting.

http://www.davitools.com/videowall/

Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/27/2020, 12:55 PM

Thanks Musicvid! I will MOST certainly check this out. The singers were MOSLY singing to a reference track. But some of them were not. I tried on one video to manually sync using a combo of cuts and stretching. But that was WAAAYYY too much work. I got permission to just exclude anyone who ignored the instruction to sing to the reference track. That is making it much easier.

alifftudm95 wrote on 11/27/2020, 1:35 PM

I wish VEGAS have that auto snapping within the preview window like PS.

I dont see any NLE out there perform such thing so far. This will be game changer if VEGAS have this. You can do this FX much more faster.

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alifftudm95 wrote on 11/27/2020, 1:37 PM

Just experiment for easier solution, you can try the following method for better grid sizes:

 

Make grids in image application, where each layer is each thumbnail grid mask:

Save each thumbnail grid mask as PNG:

Arrange each thumbnail PNG to each track, then put the video below each thumbnail mask PNG as a child track to the mask track:

Change the Compositing mode of mask PNG track layer as 'Multiply':

Now arrange the singer whether using P-in-P FX or Event Pan&Crop function to make it fit to each grid 'window':

 

Every thumbnail mask PNG here functions as a filter for better grid size, so the video source's sizes doesn't have to be super exact.

 

You can import PSD file directly into VEGAS Pro, much more better & less file to work with

Editor and Colorist (Kinda) from Malaysia

MYPOST Member

PC DEKSTOP

CPU: Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU: RTX3090 24GB

RAM: 64GB 3200MHZ

MOBO: X570-E

Storage:

C DRIVE NVME M.2 1TB SSD GEN 4

D DRIVE NVME M.2 2TB SSD GEN 4

E DRIVE SATA SSD 2TB

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Monitor: BenQ PD2700U 4K HDR (RIP on 30 August 2023)

 

 

 

3POINT wrote on 11/27/2020, 2:12 PM

No need to leave Vegas/Vegas Movie Studio to create such a mask, remember good old Cookie Cutter:

set wrote on 11/27/2020, 3:52 PM

Good more ideas coming in... @Ken-Theriot, you have more options to play with now 😉

 

@3POINT, I only use Checkerboard 😄 all these times to make reference, but never realized that Cookie Cutter have Repeat X Y feature. Good for planning tool for this kind of arranging task.

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RAM: 16GB
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* I don't work for VEGAS Creative Software Team. I'm just Voluntary Moderator in this forum.

Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/27/2020, 4:20 PM

Yes. I can't wait to try these when I get back to the studio.

john_dennis wrote on 11/27/2020, 6:58 PM

Here is a transparent PNG guide grid that I made using @3POINT method and Photoshop. It has 81, that's 75+, 16x9 windows that you can use as a guide to place each video on a track underneath. At 8K, it should scale and hold you for a while.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jmd0X3MmCrz7qnXmwpLqEHecEX3Mvjd7/view?usp=sharing

Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/28/2020, 12:31 AM

Wow, thanks! I'll give it a try.

walter-i. wrote on 11/28/2020, 2:29 AM

Here is a transparent PNG guide grid that I made using @3POINT method and Photoshop. It has 81, that's 75+, 16x9 windows that you can use as a guide to place each video on a track underneath. At 8K, it should scale and hold you for a while.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jmd0X3MmCrz7qnXmwpLqEHecEX3Mvjd7/view?usp=sharing

@john_dennis @3POINT
Many thanks for the idea and the implementation - I downloaded it and put it in my jewelery box for future use!
👍👍

Ken-Theriot wrote on 11/30/2020, 3:37 PM

Ken, you found the thread I was thinking of, and your question certainly is not atypical at present.

Since I have some interest in this, I've been having a lot of fun with DaviTools VideoWall, an older, free extension for Vegas. Use the forum Search box.

You can also record your Zoom events, but the quality is kind of crummy.

I downloaded the DaviTools VideoWall and followed the instructions, which said (for the Magix version, which I have) to place the dll file into C:\ProgramData\VEGAS Pro\Application Extensions. But there is no such folder in my C:\ProgramData\VEGAS Pro. Do you know where I should put the dll?

Musicvid wrote on 11/30/2020, 4:12 PM

The system folders may be hidden from you?

You can change that in Windows Folder Properties.

Also, you may need to unblock the downloaded file. Right-click.